Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum

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Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:11 pm

Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:04 pm
Posts: 23

To Paul and other Buff engineers:
I love my 4-head Einstein kit and I have invested in a Cyber Commander, 4 two-way receivers, and plain CST transmitter. PLMs, a bunch of reflectors. I love having the Vagabond, probably going to buy another. Not bragging here. I write because there is a product opportunity I hope you guys are developing. Maybe I can buy it from YOU.

Recent "tweeners" have shown up and I don't mean screaming Taylor Swift fans.*

There are several variations on the Godox Witstro offering 180 or 300 WS and a bare tube output inside what looks like a Canon 600 on steroids. Well, that's kinda what it is. There are a few modifiers, enough to get by, and the power supply has to be separate but it's a battery. I bet everyone who visits here has seen these so I hope you don't feel I am promoting or shilling for a competing product.

No I want Paul C. Buff, Inc. to make one or more of these so I can leverage my radio gear, Vagabond, etc. Although I take the regular Einsteins out on location all the time, I want to use such a "trimmer" unit at events, weddings, and editorial work outdoors. I once walked around at an outdoor event with a Vagabond wired to an Einstein up on a 42" shaft over my head. The head was attached to a solid shaft attached at its base to a ThinkTank belt running behind my back. The shaft held the Einstein and a 22' white beauty dish just up over my head. (Don't ask about puffs of wind.) Sun-cutting capability was wonderful. I was my own two-legged light stand.

OK, what's the benefit of the "trimmer" form factor? I would appreciate others' thoughts here, but I am thinking easier mounting in a hall, simple [wireless, please]controls, *possible* use on a body (seems a little less likely...) and less weight swaying around up on the light stand. Despite sandbags or waterjugs. The biggest benefit is starting with a stop or two more power than a speedlight. The benefit includes bare tube configuration for better light coming out of modifiers.

Anyway, I'd love to have your thoughtful engineering inside one of these.

Other readers here please VOTE with a reply if you want PCB to go into this product category.

jonathan7007

*I love country music and am a screaming fan of Emmy Lou Harris.




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Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:42 pm

Site Admin
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:49 am
Posts: 1432

I can't imagine anyone making a 640Ws Einstein any smaller or lighter than it is without splitting it into two pieces. The Godox units you refer are 1/2 and 1/4 the power in a split design. Flash cap weigh a lot and are big.

We make studio flash that can be used on location. Most of the light types you refer to are worthless in the studio.




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Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:08 pm

Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:04 pm
Posts: 23

I totally agree about what belongs in a true studio environment. I had my advertising business based in the studio for some years so know what an advantage Einsteins would be had I still such a facility. I work entirely on location now. It would have been good for my set up to buy such a product (smaller and lower output OK) well-engineered by you guys. If the category isn't interesting to PCB that's OK.

Best wishes and Happy Thanksgiving to all at PCB.




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Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:36 pm

Site Admin
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:49 am
Posts: 1432

We are doing initial engineering/design work on a 320Ws compact flash with built in Lithium battery and AC power supplies, plus studio-capable LED modeling and IGBT constant color. Suitable for studio or location work.

But don't hold your breath for availability - concept design to final product is a rather lengthy process.




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Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:01 am

Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:58 am
Posts: 2

Wow, will buy 2 or more if it's not bigger than an Einstein and retain it's functionality. Would be great if it can do high speed sync.




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Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:28 am

Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:04 pm
Posts: 6

Luap wrote:
We are doing initial engineering/design work on a 320Ws compact flash with built in Lithium battery and AC power supplies, plus studio-capable LED modeling and IGBT constant color. Suitable for studio or location work.

But don't hold your breath for availability - concept design to final product is a rather lengthy process.



I've been suspecting that you guys would produce something to compete with the Elinchrom Quadra.
It would make sense since you guys discontinued the Zeus pack and head line. You basically have all of the pieces. All you have to do now is combine the VLX into the Einstein. This would make it similar to the Profoto B1. But then I would take it a step further and instead of making it one heavy unit that's top heavy and easily blown over in the wind, split it out and have the battery and controls in a pack unit and keep the head really light. This is basically the Elinchrom Quadra. The head is just a flashtube and an LED light. You already have the molding, tooling, etc from the Zeus line so it's just a little tweaking it a bit. This is much more usable to me than a monolight.

The thing about the Godox AD360 is that it's too big to put on your camera.
You need a battery pack as a separate unit. Since it's already going to be a two-piece unit, why not just move a lot of the weight down to the pack and keep the head as light as possible. Sure the pack will be heavier but it'll still be usable by clipping it to your belt. Now with the head being light, it's possible to put it on your camera or raise it up high on a lightstand without worrying that it's topheavy. Have a simple and fast way to pop the battery in/out and you have a really awesome usable system that you can use for Stills and Video.

It just seem like you guys have the parts but haven't really put 2 and 2 together to get 4.

The other issue with the Godox and why I sold them as quickly as I bought them:
The trigger system is completely useless to me. It really defeats the purpose of having a flash the you can control the power remotely.
I mainly shoot weddings and the Godox would have been great but the way they designed the trigger is absolutely worthless. Let's say I have 2 lights in different parts of the room. Each light is on a separate group. I might decide that I want to turn off one light by turning off the group. Well in order to do that, I have to click a bunch of times to turn it all the way down, then off. When you want to turn it back on, you have to remember what power setting you were at and click a bunch of times to get back there. That's just for one group, let's say you have 3 groups and you want to turn down 2, well now you have to do that for each group. You just don't have time to fiddle around like that when you're shooting a wedding. That Godox trigger can support 16 groups! That just makes me laugh because I know the guys who designed that trigger have never actually tried to shoot with different groups to see how a pain-in-the-ass and impractical it is to use it. Plus it advertises that you can do High Speed Sync with it...oh but then when you try to do HSS, guess what, you have to buy totally different set of triggers to do it. :roll:

Also it's hard to use the trigger in the dark because the group dial isn't illuminated so you don't can't really see if you're controlling the right group...since you have 16 damn groups to choose from. Plus it's easy to knock the group dial to a different group since it's raised so far off the trigger.

But the biggest problem with that trigger is that it doesn't allow you to have an on-camera flash.
I want to have a speedlight on my camera for fill light and in case I'm not in the same room as my lights, at least I'll have some kind of light with me. There's no plug that you can use to wire it up in conjunction with your light. At least on the cybersync, there's a port that you can use.
It would have been nice if it had a hotshoe.
I've been using the Cactus V6 and while there are some drawbacks to it, it's the best option so far for my needs. I've gone back to using Quantum T2 instead of the Godox. With the V6 and a Quantum TTL adapter, I can use the V6 to control my power and turning off a group is as simple as clicking a button on and off. When On, it is back to the same power setting as before. No need to do all that clicking.
It's almost the perfect trigger system. If only the V6 can control the power of my Einsteins and Alienbees, I'd be all set.

About the pack design:
The way Godox designed their PB960 pack is kind of silly. It has 2 ports to mount 2 flashes. The pack is only $100. I'd rather just buy a pack for each flash. Why do I need to gang up on 2 flashes when I can have 2 flashes and 2 packs to have faster recycling. So that leads me to why it's silly. In order to cut your recycling time in half, you have to buy a separate Y-joiner cable to merge the 2 ports into one port. Now you get twice as fast recycling but it just looks silly to have this Y cable attachment instead of a clean simple one port, one wire. Why didn't they just give you twice the recycling speed in one port to begin with. Who wouldn't want twice as fast recycling over the need to hook up to 2 flashes? If you really need to share 2 flashes to one pack, they have a Y-splitter for that too. So Paul, consider just having one port...or at least 2 ports that has autosensing to combine power for one flash and split power for 2 flashes.

So getting back to the vote....I vote for an Elinchrom Quadra killer / Zeus-reborn (renamed to Phoenix rising from the ashes). It should have an option to mount it to your camera and use it as a barebulb on-camera flash/video light.

And for God's sake, have a better way to clamp it a light stand!
Just have a clip like the Quantum turbo batteries. Then have a clamp on the lightstand that you can slide the on/off easily. This way, you can clip it to your belt too.

Oh that reminds me, so this new Indra500 flash from Phottix... The biggest let down for me is that the battery pack has no clip or screw thread to mount a clip. It's only option is to have a strap. That puts weight on my shoulder instead of on my hip. It will swing around as I walk fast. I would so much prefer that I can have a way to clip it to my belt. There's nothing that really excites me about the Indra. HSS in a studio flash...so what? Everything has HSS these days. TTL? I don't shoot TTL but I've been waiting for a TTL version of the Godox AD360 so that I can use the Cactus V6 to control its power.
The Indra 500 will be a two-piece system that's still top heavy. And if you want AC then you have a big transformer/inverter brick to deal with.

Focus on form factor and usability. Elinchrom Quadra-like system.

One last thing, I love the flash tubes of the Quantums because it has the protective glass dome. There's no way I can accidentally touch the tube. I accidentally touched a WL x3200 tube one time and it exploded on a shoot. Not fun. The Quadra also has that tube exposed and makes me nervous.

And when are you going to make flat speedring inserts like Kacey Enterprises? The one thing that always troubled me about your flashes is the conical shape of the speedrings and how it produces a hotspot in the middle of a softbox.




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Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:34 pm

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:18 pm
Posts: 23

I would also like to see a smaller, more compact, lighter weight Einstein light. 320 WS would be perfect. Although having the battery combined with a flash head in a monolight is nice, I'd much rather prefer a lighter monolight than the current Einstein version. I have 4 Einstein lights and 3 Vagabond minis which I mostly use for shooting weddings.
I'm looking to lighten my load of photography gear. I would have gotten the Godox 360 rebranded Bolt version that's on sale now, however relying exclusively on battery packs that will may run out of power while I'm shooting a wedding is not for me. I need AC power when I'm lighting a venue for the reception. I use the Vagabond batteries for portraits before the reception and for 1 Einstein light if I don't have an electric outlet where I want to place the light. But I can't worry about 4 batteries running out of juice during dancing!
I'd really love a lighter and smaller version of the current Einstein light, not only for easier portability, but also for safety. Even at only 4.5 lbs, the Einstein is top heavy on lightstands at 9' high and higher (I don't understand how people use even heavier lights than the Einstein at those heights ). Lighter weight monolights on tall lightstands are way safer in crowds!
So please, please, please produce an Einstein Mini!




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Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:30 pm

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:18 pm
Posts: 23

While I agree with Dizzymonk about keeping batteries separate from the flash head for lighter ( and smaller) flash heads as opposed to having the battery placed together with the flash head and thus making it heavy and unstable on tall lightstands, having the light's controls on the battery pack is not a good idea! This defeats the purpose of monolights specifically having AC cords to be able to plug them into wall outlets with OPTIONAL battery packs ONLY for when it is needed. People working in studios or working in venues with AC outlets do NOT want to have to always use a battery pack and worrying about the power running out.




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Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:53 pm

Site Admin
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:49 am
Posts: 1432

Uh - we know that 2 + 2 = 4.

What posters here don't get is that development of a product such as discussed takes 18 to 36 months and about $500,000 to develop. Once it's developed and released, lot's of people think it should have been done differently . . . . just a simple change! There is no "simple" change to an existing design in the real world.




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Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:23 pm

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:18 pm
Posts: 23

Paul, I'm not implying that the Einstein 640 wasn't designed well. Actually I think the design and quality of the light is amazing. I love using my 4 Einstein 640s and the Vagabons Minis. I know I can rely on these lights to performe reliably under intense situations. In fact, I personally have seen the amazing durability of this light when at the first wedding job I had, my Einstein light atop atop a 12' lightstand toppled over! I thank God no one got hurt! What happened was that I put a sandbag on the lightstand which caused the lightstand's caster to move out of position and become unbalanced causing the lightstand to fall. What I found absolutely incredible was that the light performed as beautifully after the fall as before! And I was even more amazed when I saw there was no crack in the light's housing! As satisfied as I was untill then with the Einstein 640s performance in the studio, I was delighted when I found I its amazing reliability under demanding situations.
However, for me as a photographer who does not work with an assistant, weight and compactness of my gear is a major factor. Therefore, it would be a dream come true if a light with less power, but smaller and lighter, with the same features as the Einstein 640 is introduced.
I was not trying to find fault with the Einstein 640, just simply suggest/request a more compact Einstein for on location jobs. And I think this was the intention of the other posters on this thread .




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