Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum

We are having serious discussions about offering some small discount or other reward to AZ residents. The carrot and the stick. At the rate CA is heading, there won't be any customers left anyhow because the smart ones will leave (like I did years ago) and the dumb ones will sit unemployed and taxed and regulated to the point of insanity and will end up doing "the work illegals don't want to do". I can see illegals pouring out of AZ and into CA in droves . . . so long CA when that happens. It's a big joke over at Model Mayhem . . . looks like a good percentage of them can't read and watch CSNBC all day.

Many there think this will hurt my business. I'm not talking about this to get more business . . . I'm contemplating actions like this to do my part to save our union before secession and civil war V2 sets in. I'll do a state by state sales check . . . betcha' CA comes in at about 7%. I can afford that or much more with no problem . . . our sales are off the chart.

Then again, there's a lot of porn lighting sold there - but it's not flash. I think Californians have more to worry about becoming Greece than I have any concern about losing customers there.

Check this out for laughs: http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=588462

Specifically what damage is that?

The World Prison Brief puts the total number of foreign prisoners in all federal, state and local facilities at 5.9%.[1] - [Note: FOREIGN is not equal to ILLEGAL.]

1. Walmsley, Roy (2009). "World Prison Population List. 8th edition" (PDF). International Centre for Prison Studies. School of Law, King's College London. http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/researc ... 8th_41.pdf. "The information is the latest available in early December 2008. ... Most figures relate to dates between the beginning of 2006 and the end of November 2008." According to the summary on page one there were 2.29 million U.S. inmates and 9.8 million inmates worldwide. The U.S. held 23.4% of the world's inmates. The U.S. total in this report is for Dec. 31, 2007 (see page 3) and does not include inmates in juvenile detention facilities. For the latest info worldwide see World Prison Brief.

Okay, so this means that out of a total 5.9% of the total population of "noncitizens" (which includes illegals) or 100% of their total in the US, they represent only 5.9% of the total prison population. This means that comparing %ages, native born citizens of the US are far more likely to be in prison or jail than their heinous illegal alien counterparts. Put another way, illegals are far less likely to commit crimes than US citizens.

Furthermore, it's not illegal's fault they come to the US to make enough money to feed their families. If you had the choice to either enter a country illegally and feed your daughter, or obey the laws and let her starve, what would you choose?

Next, California isn't saying to the rest of the United States--"Hey, we love illegal aliens that commit crime, and so should Arizona." What California is saying is that Arizona is going about the problem in the wrong way.

As far as your boycott goes, it's likely CA doesn't care what you do since it doesn't receive any tax from your sales. However, if you add all the money you make from CA residents, I'll bet that is a lot of dough. So cut off your nose to spite your face I guess.

Last, you're saying CA has no business in another states' affairs, but at the same time you're telling CA what it should and should not do. Why should you be able to boycott CA, but it's wrong for CA to Boycott another state?

It really is too bad we all find ourselves in this mess. I understand how strongly you feel about this ridiculous situation, but I think it's a little overkill to deny your loyal customers access to your fine products in response, don't you?

Forcing your CA clientele to acquire your products via 3rd parties, or arrange out of state mail drops should not be necessary, just because the state government is run my a group of lunatics and actors (one of the reasons we moved to Texas 11 years ago from Marin County, CA). Isn't it hardship enough to live in a state with the highest cost of living index in the country? (another reason we're in Texas)

While I think you make a great product (I own about $7k worth of your gear), and support your right to take a stand against racial bias in all forms, I encourage you to reconsider, based upon the impact it will have on your loyal customers who are likely as outraged as you, but forced to deal with this insanity at close-range. Not only do they know first hand how silly their legislature is, but they are being hammered by an economy (both local and national) on life support.

Just my $0.02 worth as a loyal PCB customer and CA native (thankfully and intentionally transplanted to the Lone Star State)

How long have you lived in America? Do you know that if we eliminated the illegal alien problem in America, we could likely provide fee healthcare for all AND eliminate our national debt with the surplus money saved?
Add up the cost to Americans when illegals take their jobs, add the cost of emergency room healthcare for them and their children, add up free daycare through government paid groups like Head Start, add up the cost of educating their children, add up assisted government living, add up the crime associated with illegals. Keep adding as it's a drain on our society.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am a legal immigrant (from the former Soviet Union, 1992) to this country, live in New York, and admittedly have a somewhat softer stance on immigration than PCB. However the following has little to do with where I (or anyone) personally think about the issue, simply because there are no red dollars or blue dollars, just green dollars.

I suspect the country would be a lot farther along working on the illegal immigration problem, if the present situation weren't so profitable to some.

Illegal immigrants are on average willing to work for considerably less money and with fewer benefits than U.S. citizens in those same lower level jobs. Naturally this hits our working poor and lower middle class and folks who live in the same areas or lean significantly on the same social services. At the same time illegal immigration benefits shareholders of companies like Walmart, restaurant owners from New York to LA, construction business owners, or indeed anyone who considers mowing their own lawn not being worth their time.

Basically illegal immigrants help increase the divide between rich and poor in America. And this - not the people's votes which are divided 50/50 and thus amount to no overall thrust, is at the heart of the reason the vast majority of politicians on either side of the isle to-date have not moved in a genuine way to manage the issue. Any wall (physical or figurative) they've built to-date has intentional gaps, such that its effect on denying businesses access to this workforce is nil.

Hence IMHO to really solve the root of the illegal immigration problem one has to look not just at illegal immigrants themselves but also past them and the politicians (whose job is to create the appearance of a flurry of activity and SELL policy to the masses) and to whoever finances those politicians and thus makes the policy. Until their lives are made affected negatively by illegal immigration we'll perpetually see politicians getting paid debating the issue and making and then neutering one measure or legislation after another, for decades.

If you look at the number of issues on which the nation has been successfully steered to be divided 50/50 to within 1 % point, you'll see that this isn't likely to be accidental. This is an effective way to cancel the general voter's ability to move the issue in a democracy.

Uhhhh, isn't this exactly what California is doing to Arizona, keeping their loyal customers from buying stuff from their state? And how about the counties who are now prohibiting their government workers from even travelinng to Arizona?

Why should anyone listen to a state that can't even manage their own affairs? That's like Bill Clinton telling us not to have affairs because it's bad (do as I say, not as I do).

And as for racial profiling, Arizona law strictly prohibits that.

The one thing I have difficulty dealing with are people who let their emotions run all over logic and common sense.

And before anyone jumps all over me, I am Taino. That means, I am Native American AND Hispanic and I say it's about time somebody grew a hairy pair.

Maybe a 20% "California Importation Fee" should be levied on all products heading to that state.

Oh, and I have been telling my daughter for the past five years that our country was going to be drvided to the point were a few States would break away from the Union, Texas being the first. It looks like it's heading that way.

Another thing. I also told her there would be civil war. Less likely but heck, we've already had one of those.

-Koa-

I live in CA and am appalled by the politics and economic condition of my state. I am also a customer of yours who has admired your photographic innovation and the value proposition you offer photographers. With that said, a business policy based upon your political views that punishes your California customers for something they have no control over is simply short-sighted and frankly absurd. The fact that you would consider doing something like this might also negatively affect the perception of your company by sound-minded customers in other states.

The politicians in CA who are responsible for the fiscal state of the economy don't know who you are; they don't care; and by "boycotting" the state, you will only be hurting your customers.

What military might are you talking about? If you're talking about the US military, forget it. Speaking as someone with a 26-year military career and from a family in which every male member has been military for over 100 years--the US military is not going to be part of a secession, and soldiers fighting under any flag other than the Stars and Stripes will be considered the enemy.

Not to mention that most of those middle-American states are more dependent on Mexicans and other recent immigrants than some of the locals may think.

Economically, it's a ludicrous idea. Check your state economics. No state today is self-sufficient, nor is any region self-sufficient, and no such "confederacy" is going to get credit from any international banks or be allowed to continue any current credit arrangements.

You think interstate commerce won't be disrupted? You think Texas companies will be able to maintain oil contracts with the Saudis without Washington's involvement? You think the tankers are going to sail without the US Navy backing them up around the Cape of Good Hope? You think offshore drilling is going to continue without the US Coast Guard chasing away South American pirates?

You think Aberdeen is going to continue to operate without Washington contracts? You think a bunch of "we don't believe in taxes" states are going to get a multi-year contract from General Dynamics, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, or Grumman? Don't think their loyalties lie where their corporate headquarters are located--their loyalties lie where their stockholders are located.

Paul, I want to apologize for being upset with you. As with politics, people do get emotional all the time.

It was recently pointed out to me on MM that changes were made to the bill about a week ago that addressed my concerns.

So yeah.

Sorry broski!

-RS
Independant Voter

will someone please point me to a site where the well thought out proposals for small government show the details. i too favor small government.but i probably disagree with many about what we keep.
and i do believe that purging the country of illegal immigrants will restore the USA to greatness just by raising the real minimum wage to $25.00 an hour for those who are legal citizens. what this country needs is more $50K dishwashers and grocery baggers.

at least we realize that we want another housing and real estate boom about as much as we desire another "tulip craze" or south sea bubble.