Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum

Okay so I will try and be a clear and concise as possible and will start with setup. I am shooting with a Canon 5D mk i, (the original not mkii) and a 50mm 1.4 lens. I just bought an alien bee abr800 ring flash and I have constructed it with the 30" moon unit. Everything on the abr800 seems to work, the test flash, model lamp, the lights etc..... and I am shooting through the unit mounted on a tripod connected by a pc male sync cable.

For the life of me, I can not seem to get a correctly exposed photograph at any distance with any lighting on any setting from the 800 or my 5d. I am am amateur, however, I have been shooting for years and I do get paid for portraits and other various events. Photography is my passion, I just have not made it my career. I am fairly new to studio lighting and flash photography, but I'd like to think that I know what I am dong. I am telling you that I have tested it all day on various setting on my 5D, using A, TV, M, P modes and nothing...every shot is grossly over exposed even when the 800 is on 1/32 of the power, I cant imagine if it was on half or full power.....I have shot a model on and off tripod in a dark studio, a light studio, indoor, outdoor and again, if I am 2-3 feet away, or 10- 20 feet away, I have maybe got one shot of hundreds that is correctly exposed and even then the lighting is so harsh. I understand there are many variables, metering modes, iso, aperture, shutter settings that could be the issue, but I should be able to take a photo of a model with a nice white or painted wall background in a nicely lit area with the correct settings on my 5d and have the flash only enhance the image....no matter what I do, it seems as if the alien bee is just too strong.....ultimately I want to use this in studio for models and for product shoots and I keep watching videos of people on youtube using the same settings as I am, but shooting models at 2-3 feet away and getting amazingly lit, perfectly exposed shots.....any advice

1. example, I am 2-3ft or 6-10 feet away, shooting at f5/6 iso 100-800(doesnt matter) it seems to make no difference, 50mm 1.4, abr800 set to 1/32 or 1/8-1/16 power and the photos are either completely white or completely dark or if I do get a shot that is exposed, the light is too harsh and its hitting the models cheeks or chin or face and it just looks awful...I am worried that the strobe is too bright and is malfunctioning, because it shouldn't be that bright on 1/32 power. I am wondering if anyone has had any issues like mine, if anyone is using a 5d or similar camera, could you send me some settings that have that create an evenly matched/exposed photograph, flickr examples....

2. Shouldn't I be able to take a correctly exposed photography shooting in Aperture mode at f/5.6-11 iso 100-800, 1/125-250 shutter, etc.....when I shoot normally without any flash or with my 580ex ii I can get correctly exposed shots, I just can't compensate for the bright abr800 light....I have not used a light meter yet, I just ordered the L358 sekonic, so I will try that next week, but I am just looking for any advice, maybe there is something on my 5d, a setting or something, the sync speed etc....any help, even stating the obvious, would be greatly appreciated. I have tried shooting in M mode and setting everything myself, trial and error, but I just feel like there is something wrong, or my 5D is not letting the alien bee sync correctly etc...could be many reasons, but any advice will help thanks...

3.Does any one know if I can shoot off a test flash from the abr800 to get an exposure reading on the 5D, like the 580ex ii does? or is that only possible when using a light meter

4. also, my model lamp doesnt seem to be so bright, it is a soft orange glow, I was under the impression that this could be used as a main or secondary light on a tripod for studios, but it doesnt seem to be that bright, could it just be an issue with the leds, strobes, bulbs etc.. has anyone has issues where they had to return for service???

any advice, settings that I may not be entering correctly on the 5d or abr800, just anything would help....I am hoping that someone says, "oh you just need to do this" and bam it will work....haha.....thanks

When using off-camera flash, you must shoot in Manual mode. There is no such thing as TTL with off-camera flash. Your camera doesn't know there's a strobe. It's only seeing ambient light.

Make sure Auto ISO in the camera is off. Shutter speed must not go beyond the camera's max sync speed. I would recommend you do some reading about exposure and off-camera flash.

Modeling lamps are not for use as "secondary lights for the studio." They are for visualizing how the strobe will illuminate a scene when it fires.

thanks, hmm I have atuo iso off and I am actually shooting the abr800 on camera, not off camera....on or off camera my 580ex ii works great and I know how to use that....its just this abr800 ringflash when shooting through it it tends to be so bright and harash no matter what setting.....

also, so if the model lamp is not used for secondary light, how do people use the abr800 as continuous studio lighting???? I have seen them used as main lights or fill lights with continuous bright light..or is only used as off camera flash?? thx

I keep reading and seeing videos online that show the abr800 used as a main studio light almost like a alien bee 800 or 1600 or any type of studio light.....not really that concerned about that, just weird that I have seen a video of one being used as a main light, it seems to be on full bright power and then someone shoots an on of off camera flash and the alien bee light is used as the main light or fill flash and it seems perfect.....

also, i have seen videos of people shooting like 2-3 feet away from a model and getting outstanding portraits with perfect lighting and I try it, with the exact same setting and its like I shot my model with a 10,0000000000watt light.....its not exactly over exposed or completely white, its just harsh, it seems to have way too much power on the lowest setting and thats with the moon unit diffuser, I see people using it close up even without the main doughnut ring on.......

Unless you are using a speedlite from Canon or made specifically for Canon, you will not have any automation abilities. There are no studio lights that support TTL or other automatic exposure support.

This means you must be in M mode (Av mode is possible in some situations if you really know what you are doing). You must also have your ISO set to a specific setting, AUTO ISO is not going to work.

According to this page on our site: http://www.paulcbuff.com/output-ringflash.php , at 10 feet and ISO 100 and the flash at full power, you should set your aperture to f/8.0' 5, (a.k.a. f/9.5). Your shutter speed should not exceed your x-sync speed (about 1/160 or 1/200 on your camera). If you exceed this, you will notice a black bar encroaching on the image.

So:
1/160
f/9.5
ISO 100
power set to FULL
10 feet away.

If you doube your distance, that is a two stop change to a bigger aperture or ISO.
If you half your distance, that is a two stop change to a smaller aperture or ISO or power setting.

The modeling lights are not intended for continuous lighting, as they are not generally bright enough. However, If they are at full, and your ISO is high enough, and shutter speed low enough, and your aperture big enough, then they can be used.

However, there should be 8 model lamps. If there are only 4, then one or more of the dark ones is faulty. One bad one will shut the string of four off (each alternate bulb is one string).

than you, yeah I understand that and that's what I have tired to the exact settings...I just read that in the manual and now it's slightly better, however are the people that I see making videos of shooting models 2-3 feet away without any difusers lying??? I can't figure out how/why/if that is possible...thank you all though, big help

i will continue to test it out and let you know thanks for the help.....I just get frustrated, because I have terrible luck with everything I buy...I bought a 7D last year and kept noticing auto focus issues, everyone kept telling me I was crazy or that it was my fault etc....I had to send it back 5 times and each time it came back with a letter canon stating that there was an auto focus error and that they corrected it and it took me 5 times and 2 new cameras to finally get a working one....and not once did canon ever state that the issues were from user error, I had 2 faulty cameras, numerous times.....haha....not to mention I bought three 50mm 1.4's before I could get a sharp one and that was after testing each one in a studio on a tripod with perfect lighting with a pro also saying there were issues with each lens....so I am just always worried....

has anyone had issues with the abr800 being too bright or stuck on full power maybe????

Some general tips:

Put your camera in it's lowest ISO setting.

Set it to M mode and set shutter speed to 1/200.

Now, only adjust the aperture to get the desired exposure. If it looks too bright, either stop down the aperture or move the light farther from the subject. If f/5.6 is too bright, try f/8, f/11, f/16, etc.

You should know that the distance from the camera to the subject will have no effect on the exposure unless your light source is physically attached to the camera. Exposure is determined by the distance from the light source to the subject.

A light meter - Cyber Commander or Sekonic would be good choices - would help you. But through proper trial and error you should be able to get there. Just set your ISO and shutter speed as above and don't change them. Only change the aperture. Try f/22 for a start and back off if you need to.

It's certainly possible to get a proper exposure with the light just a few feet from the subject. However, the light falloff will be extreme if you do that and it may look too contrasty for your taste.

thank you, will try tomorrow and let u know thx again......i think maybe the 5d sync speed was going all over the place.....my error...thx

velvetslash: buy a lightmeter so you don't go nuts!
Where are you located? It'd help if someone showed you how it makes life easier...

I figured it out thanks guys....not sure if it was just my settings, although I was testing them exactly how you all stated originally,....I tried using half power and full power at the correct setting and now I am getting beautiful shots, so I I still dont get how 1/32 was blowing up highlights and over exposing, its almost as if it was giving me full power and now its back to normal. I did figure it out and I am going to grab a new light meter, so thanks again....