Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum

Not to pile on, but after reading on this forum of users experiencing poor range and reliability with the Cyber Commander in the field, I decided to do some testing with my CC, Einstein, CSXCV, and CST. I can confirm that there is definitely a communication and triggering issue between the Commander and the transceiver.

I tested on an open soccer field. The good news is that the CST triggered the Einstein with 100% reliability at distances greater than the length of the field. The less good news is that the CC lost control of the Einstein at distances as short as 12 feet. I tested with the light facing toward me and away from me. The results with the light facing in my direction were actually only slightly worse than when the light was facing away. Triggering became spotty at 11 feet and, by 15 feet, the light would only trigger once out of every 10 or 15 button presses. Beyond 15 feet the light would not trigger at all.

In addition, at distances beyond 11 feet or so from the light, the CC lost control of the light's power setting. So while the CC display might say 160WS, the light might actually be at 320WS.

Initially I tested with the Spill Kill reflector in place but I repeated my tests with the reflector removed. The presence or absence of the reflector seemed to have no impact on the results. Also, orientation of the CC didn't substantially impact results either.

I understand that an antenna revision is in the works for the CC but I think further analysis of the interaction between the CSXCV and CC might be warranted.

Dave F.

I also read same posts and decided to test with a 22" HOBD on an Einstein and using the CC as the on camera trigger. Didn't do any power or funtions commands. Einstein was in a corner of a large main room while I walked around to various rooms and back again. The results were not too bad, mostly inconsistant. The longest distance was 45 feet through walls and then I got 15 out of 20 fires. Seems on one try when there was no fire, i could turn just 1 degree and then it would start firing again. I do think that clear line of sight is better than no line of sight. As far as the 22" HOBD, CC fired 100% of the time within 25 feet with clear line of sight with the CC in front of HOBD. If there is a revamping of the CC's antenna, I hope it will be retro for all owners. Love my Einstein, CC, CST and legacy PCB lights.

RMS

Edit: Sorry Paul, did not see your post before I posted this. Thanks for your fast responce and working a fix for the antenna issue with CC. I do use the CST for triggering but want to be able to adjust power and use functions reliably with the CC from some distance. RMS

Getting this resolved ASAP is job one for the upcoming week. Same with PW issues. I am in daily contact with PW and with our rf developer.

We're sure it is, Paul. As I said, not piling on but just providing an additional data point.

Dave F.

The Beauty Dish metal reflector is acting as very efficient electromagnetic shield in between the CSXCV antenna and the CC antenna, reducing the signal levels below the minimum required to keep a valid data communication between devices. Is likely that in an open field there is not an object beside or behind the CSXCV to help bounce the signal coming from the CC in front of the Beauty Dish. In case of indoors like studios, the walls, floor, ceiling and other objects helps to bounce a small but sufficient amount of signal to and from the back of the Beauty Dish, allowing the CSXCV to keep a valid data communication with the CC. In an open field the antenna behind the Beauty Dish only receive a small fraction of the signal coming directly from the CC in front of the Beauty Dish. The rest of the signal emitted by the CC is dispersed in all directions and never reach the CSXCV. In case of indoors, a small fraction of the same signal from CC that was dispersed in all directions now has a better chance to reach the CSXCV because is bounced by the walls, ceiling, floor and other objects. The Einstein design keeps the CSXCV attached to the unit. If the Einstein/CSXCV design allows both devices to connect with an extension cable, the CSXCV could be placed in a more direct line of site with the CC.
The Retro Laser reflector design allows the CSXCV to be in the front of the reflector.

I experienced the same issue today with no reflector at all mounted on the Einstein. The CSXCV antenna had a clear line-of-sight to the CC.

Dave F.

I appreciate all the feedback here. I'm wondering if some sub par CCs have slipped through production testing. I will institute more extensive production CC range testing next week. We will get this solved and make sure all customers ultimately get the results they expect.

I am baffled by some of the extremely short CC ranges reported here. I have tested a number of CCs in my EMI laden house and found range definitely considerably shorter than CST, but typically 80' to 150' line of sight, but as short as 35' when going through walls and obstructions. The beauty dish can definitely act as a signal blocker as well as a signal bouncer. Bounced signals can also diminish range.

I just now did a quick test of a production Einstein with PLM and CSXCV located in the center of my house. When fired by CC and CST from outside the house, through glass front walls and wet trees all around (but not in the transmission path), I saw consistent firing and adjustment via the CC to about 60' and spotty firing out to about 90'. The CST fired consistently out to about 150', passing under trees and metal carport. This is in line with previous results I have seen with various CSTs and CSRs, etc.

I have to agree that distances described by some here - sub 20', are totally unacceptable. As I stated, we are addressing this full bore next week.

Paul,

Very much appreciated.

I wonder if you'd consider it productive (and, at this stage, cost-saving) to conduct integration testing of each customer's kit going out. I.e. if a customer orders a CC plus some Einsteins with triggers, to test them together making sure the particular Einsteins being shipped initialize and communicate correctly and consistently with the CC in question, and the signal/range is good.

I would like to also reiterate my earlier suggestion for the next Einstein and CyberCommander firmware releases to include some debug functionality such as logging, signal strength reporting, and any other available telemetry, etc.

Alex

Hmm... I bought a CC a month or two ago, mostly for adjustments and metering (using CSRB+ receivers). So I only tried it as a trigger a little, but it seemed unreliable even around the home. I didn't worry about it, as I use a CST for triggering anyway. But it's consistent with the possibility that some recent CC's have problems.

Wow! I just received my CC and 4 CSXCV transceivers yesterday. I have no way to use them until my Einsteins arrive but this thread is seriously making me have second thoughts about investing in the CC system. I already has $1000's invested in a Sekonic/PW system for firing but hated having to adjust everything by touch. If I'm not going to be able to use the CC beyond distances of 30-ish feet, that is going to be a serious disappointment. I'm not being negative mind you... just worried.

- Wil