Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum

Everyone,

I want to apologize in advance for what I'm sure will be some pretty basic questions about the Cyber Commander. Unfortunately I am very new to studio lighting and am having a little difficulty as I moved from a Sekonic meter to the CC.

I have a two light set up with my main (B800) and fill (B400). I believe and hope that I added the lights properly to the CC. I also set up two groups. The first group consists of just the main light and the second is both lights.

Last night I attempted some dramatic light portraits of my daughter. She was facing my main light and the reflector was behind her. I metered the light for Group 1 at her chin with the sensor facing the camera. The reading was 5.6. I then shot at f/5.6. 1/250 and ISO of 200. The resultant picture looked like she was about to be abducted in the aliens' white light from their space ship!

I went back and remetered getting f/5.6 again. Same result when I tried again at that aperture. I ended up shooting at f/9, f/11 and f/14. The last one gave the best results. But I am completely unsure why the meter reading was so off. (And yes, I accept that it is most likely user error. I just need to know how to fix it.)

Also with metering, (warning, really stupid question follows), does the meter JUST meter or does it adjust the light group based on the meter reading?

The reason I ask this is because in my current studio lighting class, we are being taught to meter the highlight side, the shadow side, the hair (for hairlight) and the background. And what has confused me is whether the metering ends up adjusting or re-adjusting the lighting levels each time I meter. I have had situations where the highlight is f/8 and the shadow is f/5.6, but then I re-meter the highlight side after the shadow side and now the highlight is reading at 5.6, and I'm wondering what the heck happened if I did not adjust the power level on the lights manually.

So I'm managing to confuse myself and am almost ready to go back to the Sekonic I sold because I'm clearly too challenged to manage the Cyber Commander!

I can't even figure out why my fill light is even on when I have the set up on for Group 1 (which is supposed to only be the main light). It doesn't seem to fire but the modeling light stays on.

Can someone please educate me? Generally I am quite trainable. :?

Thanks in advance.

When you meter with the CC, that doesn't adjust your lights. It just tells you how bright they are. You have to set the aperture on your camera to match the aperture reported by the CC. If you want to shoot at a different aperture, you adjust the power with the left joystick and the aperture reading on the CC and the power level of the light will go up or down in response.

Since you're only using two lights, there's probably no need to use groups. You can just put one light on channel 1 and the other on channel 2 and control them that way. The only reason I can imagine to group them would be if you intend to use them as a pair and want them to have identical power levels - maybe to light a background, etc. But even then you could just use the ALL position to adjust both of them so assigning a group wouldn't really add any additional control.

It sounds like you metered group 1 (containing one light) and got f/5.6. That tells you how bright that one light is. But when you take a picture and trigger the lights with the CC, both (all) lights will fire so the picture is likely to be overexposed because of the contribution from the second light.

Try this:

Assign your lights to channel 1 and 2 and place them where you want them.

Put CC on CH1, hold the CC at subject position, point the lumisphere at the camera and meter that light.

Put CC on CH2, and meter the second light.

Now you can adjust the power of the individual lights to get a desired ratio. Suppose you started with both lights at equal power and distance from subject so they each metered at f/5.6, but you actually want the main to be twice as bright as the fill. You can put the CC on CH1 (main) and increase it one stop to f/8, or you can put CC on CH2 (fill) and reduce it one stop to f/4. Either way, you have made CH1 twice as bright as CH2.

***Here's the part I think you missed:

Now, put the CC on ALL and meter. Both lights will fire and you will get a final working aperture reading from the CC. It might be f/8 or something. You can just set your camera to that aperture and shoot. Or, if you don't like the aperture you got, just leave the CC on ALL and raise or lower the power. It will adjust both lights automatically so that the ratio you set is maintained and the aperture reading on the CC will change also.

If you ever go back to CH1 or CH2 and change the strength of an individual light, afterwards you'll always have to re-meter under ALL to know what aperture to shoot with.

If your modeling lamp is on but you want it off, look on the CC menu under LIGHT SETTINGS and turn the MODEL MODE to OFF for that channel or for ALL. Also make sure your remote cable is plugged into the CSR and the Bee snugly and that the Bee is turned on before you plug the remote cable into it. If it wasn't, just unplug the remote cable from the Bee and reinsert it.

Lastly, make sure the shutter speed and ISO on the CC match your camera settings or all the meter readings will be off. This is adjusted in the menu under FLASHMETER.

Hope this helps!

Lee

It sounds like one possibility is that the ISO & shutter speed were not set correctly on the CC. Also, just to be sure, check that you are on full manual settings on your camera.

What I would do is set up your lights and meter with your sekonic and then with your CC--you should get pretty close readings. If not, then check the ISO settings, as that could be throwing you off.

For example, if the CC is set at ISO 100, but your camera is actually at ISO 200, you'll be overexposing.

To my knowledge, the CC does not adjust the lighting based on the meter: you meter, if it is not what you want then you use the CC to adjust the lights.

My general metering flow is

1. Decide on the aperture I want for the shot (say f4)
2. Assuming I am studio lights only, no ambient I am trying to pick up, my shutter goes to my camera's max sync speed
3. I set my ISO to 100 or 200 (depending on the camera)
4. The above sets my exposure starting point. f4, 1/200, ISO 100
5. NOW, I turn on the main (key) light, meter at the subject position, adjust the light until I get f4 (note that the meter must be set to the same ISO as the camera)
6. Then I turn off the main light, turn on the second light (fill, rim, etc), meter/adjust until I get what I want for that (f5.6, f8, whatever you are choosing). Rinse, repeat for each light.
7. Then I turn on all lights, meter again, and adjust a bit if necessary, take some test shots.
8. At this stage the fine tuning begins--need a little less fill, need a little more dof, need a bit more or less rim light, etc.

But your initial issue seems more like an ISO difference between meter and camera. I have a sekonic meter and a CC, and they are pretty close (maybe 1/3 stop delta between them sometimes). Or perhaps the way the lights were arranged, you did not meter with both of them enabled.

And, until you figure it out, you can always use the sekonic to meter, the CC to adjust/control the lights. That's what I do--the sekonic is a fine meter, and I can leave the CC dedicated to control.

Ltwimberly & BDP: Thank you both for your patient explanations. This is really helpful.

As best as I can sort out from reading what you've written, I think I've been getting confused about metering with one light on and metering with both. The trouble started for me when we added the fill light in class. And it may well be that when I thought I was metering one light only, I had both strobes set to fire.

I'm going to go back to the beginning and make sure that each light is set on a different channel and forget the groups. I might end up getting a 3rd light to help with highkey, but I'll worry about that at the time. :P

BDP: I sold my Sekonic after moving to the CC, so I don't have it anymore. I believe that I have things set up in camera properly. I try to shoot at f/5.6 to f/8 ISO 200 and 1/250. (I have a D700). And all was going well in the class until I added my second light.

Here's one of my kidlet:
20110417-DSC_4439web by teendoctor, on Flickr

So I think I've messed up the set up and the process of metering individual lights. I'm printing out your advice/instructions and will regroup.

Thank you both so much!

Liana

Ltwimberly

Spoken by someone who truly understands Cyber Commander. Well written. Thanks.

teendoc: Looks like you're getting by pretty well as is! I enjoyed the pics on your website.

Luap: I love your company and your products.

Here are a couple of my own "kidlets" pre-ballet recital shot using CC, 2 Einsteins, 2 AB800's.

Lee: Thank you! And love your daughters' fresh faces and your highkey work! Now I just have to figure out which light to buy next to double light my white vinyl. Another B800 or should I go to the B1600? Decisions, decisions!

I didn't expect to like studio but I really do!

I'd consider the Einstein for two reasons:

1. It's super-cool and if you try one you won't want anything else. It will work amazingly well with the CC.

2. Unless you have a large studio space to work with you'll get a lot of spill from the white vinyl back onto your subject and lens, so the lower power capabilities of the Einstein would probably help.

Also, if you're in a smaller space, you might look at the Buff white background shovel reflector with a single light.

Lee: you are so helpful! Thanks.

Right now I'm in my unfinished basement so only boxes limit me at this point! ;) But when we finish the basement, I'm sure that it won't be a huge space for my studio.

I hadn't thought of an Einstein. And I'm off to take a look at the reflector you suggested.

Thanks!