Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum

Hi Paul
I'm from the UK and I recently became interested in your very neat strobes for their design and portability. However, when I compared prices between your US and European sites, I was staggered by the mark ups that you put on the European site - easily 40% higher than US prices!!!
On top of that, your delivery charge on 1 single unit comes to a stinging £28.00 ($40) - as revealed by a 'mock' order, that's way higher than what we're used to even in rip-off Britain.
If we choose to buy from your US site, your policy on international buyers seems to bar us from buying rather than welcome us.
Altogether, from where I stand, you don't appear to want us to play ball with you :-(
Are there ways to enjoy your lovely products outside of the US without being stung (pun intended)??
best regards
colourblind

Just curious, I'm in the states (God bless America) but I know our dollar is really weak right now. I don't know anything about foreign exchanges but could that be the problem? Does your country put extra taxes on USA imports?

As far as shipping, of course it cost more shipping half way around the world than just putting it in the little brown truck (UPS).

I have no facts, just thinking out loud...

Of course, import tax plays a part in the pricing, but I wonder how other global brands (Japanese cameras are a good example) manage to sell sometimes for comparable prices to Asia - I've just bought a Canon L lens from a pro outfit here for less than a Hong Kong-based website.
As for the high delivery charge, I'd have thought AB must have imported a bunch of units to their UK depot, so shipment is made locally. Items of comparable weight should go for under the equiv of $15 in delivery, $40 is daylight robbery.
Weak dollar:
That usually results in us paying less, not more for US goods, doesn't it??

Below are UK AB prices at today's exchange rate:
B400 - $361 (compared to $225)
B800 - $439 (compared to $279)
B1600 - $550 (compared to $359)

Due to these prices, AB products don't have the price edge here as they do in the US, as they are about the same prices as Bowens, which is a well-established brand here, there are no clear-cut benefits in choosing AB as it stands.

I'm not a marketing person, but to convert UK buyers to AB, some juicy carrots will have to be evident.

regards
Colourblind

ps. the warranty statement on the european site doesn't spell out how warranty repairs are being treated - carried out locally, or back to the USA?

Are you serious?

In order for EU/AUS/US prices to be the same or relatively comparable - one of the following would need to happen.

1) US prices rise
2) EU/AUS prices fall
3) Combination of both

Point 1) US prices are not going to rise. Why should they? The products started in the states, and are built in the states - so they should be cheaper there. They also have cheaper delivery, and a larger customer base

Point 2) Our prices aren't going to fall - because the people responsible for import/export also have to eat and pay bills. The prices are fair. Especially considering all imports/exports get stung with taxes and freight. Shipping is ridiculous - everything is air-shipped so that it gets there faster.

Point 3) The fact that the prices are a good reflection of both markets means that they will not change.

Companies like Nikon and Canon also do this. E.G. an SB900 bought here in Aus will cost me around $900. I can buy the same flash, for around $450AUD from the states - and get it shipped over. Do I go and cry about this in Nikon forums? No. Why? Because I understand economics. Simple economics. We don't have the market like the US - and we don't make the stuff here, so we pay more.

If you don't want to pay what the price is - buy something else. This isn't Bangkok where you can bargain away - these are retail prices that reflect item costs/taxes/shipping/profits.

I'm not an economist, but I can't see why those factors have to come into play for a company to keep their prices comparable across the world.
However, that's not the point of my post, I was only crying partly for myself, but mainly for AB. As you said, if I don't like the price, look elsewhere, and unfortunately, most people might do just that, and who's losing out?
It's not just pricing that makes a company boom or bust, it's the volume of goods shifted that counts too.
And what's a major factor that shifts goods from a relatively new foreign brand in the current economic climate.. surely it's £, $, € etc..
regards

colourblind

The factors come into play when you understand the history of the company.

The company is primarily US based. There is a distributor for AUS/EU. That person gets a certain discount for buying in bulk to sell on in the other countries. After factoring in freight/taxes/profit - the price is set.

If your country, or mine, starting buying HEAPS of stock - we would get more sent over. The price may fall, to reflect this. Or the price might stay the same, and the extra profit at the distributors end will go into growing the business and providing further support.

Since the brand has ONLY JUST spread internationally - that is not the case. The price at the moment currently reflects the risk/gain/buying power of the individual distributors.

The price is still competitive with others who market in the countries already - which says a hell of a lot! Sure, prices are cheaper in the states. But they are cheaper in the states for almost everything.

I could actually buy Australian wine cheaper in London than I could in Brisbane/Australia. That came down to sheer bulk and taxes applicable in the two countries.

PCB at the moment seems to be going well in the US. Not so much in AUS/EU - especially with the teething problems and the setbacks they have faced recently. They simply aren't getting bulk orders in yet - and by being an affordable product, unfortunately attract penny-pinchers that basically just waste time.

The product is now available for you. If it meets your requirements, buy it. If not, buy something else. The decision is being made all across the globe - THAT is the simple economics you need to consider yourself. Previously, it would have been a hell of a lot difficult to get AB gear in Aus. A lot of people would have gone Eli or Pro or Bowens or something else... a lot of people still do.

Buff's direct sales model is very efficient for domestic sales, and eliminates the cost of a distribution channel. One of the biggest reasons PCB stuff is such a great value in the US is because distribution costs are minimal. I'd wager that some of the people who snipe at PCB on various forums are jealous wholesalers and retailers who wish they could carry the line.

Anyway, for international sales, there are inevitably other costs that come into play, whether they ship directly or use an agent. Additionally, since exchange rates vary, middlemen have to allow themselves an extra margin of error when setting prices. Just no way it can be as cheap as domestic sales under the current model.

Hi bobk and kris
I fully understand what you've said. I didn't know AB uses agents/distributors overseas, I thought they had their own people manning these outposts.
However, the sad fact remains that these days more than ever before, pricing, relative to comparable products, is a major factor for us buyers, penny-pinching is not a choice for many of us, if money wasn't a factor, I'd have gone for Prophoto's very portable flashes, I was attracted to AB for their prices before I found their europe site.
I would not have hesitated to order a set at US prices, but now I must reconsider as one of the main attractions (I still love their design, of course) is not applicable to me.
We all love a bargain, Kris, I'm sure if you had a choice of suppliers for your flash in your area, you'd have compared their prices.
I believe in supporting our local businesses, but when it comes to shopping on the web, national boundaries don't exist, like it or not, many people flick from country to the next for the best bargain, sellers should take advantage of this for their own benefit.
Happy shooting!
colourblind

An extensive discussion can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=476&hilit=europe+price

Cliff notes:
-We are a small company, and do not have resources to package for shipments all over the world. Nor do we have the resources to limit our fraud liability from around the world.
-The distributors have to make a profit, and we do not sell at a hogh enough profit margin to offer normal discounting to the distributors = more $$
-Shipping is expensive, and would also be expsensive to ship from the US direct to the customer. Ligthing equipment can be bulky, but not particularly heavy for its size or cost. Shipping is based on size, then weight. =more $$
-Import taxes. You would also be responsible for this if shipped direct to the customer. These are typically higher than the profit made by the distributor.= more $$

This can be likened to seafood. Is it cheaper on the coast or in the middle of the continent?

This said, i would like to remind everyone this is a technical board.

It all makes sense now, many thanks for your explanation TS.

I'll have a good think and make up my mind very soon!

all the best
colourblind