Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum

A couple of weeks ago I got a set of four CSR+ and a CST, which I used with no problems together with two AB800 and two AB1600.

Today I just got my new Cyber Commander (I guess this is a version 2 of the CC, as this has an antenna and a lanyard hook at the top, and came with the newest firmware), so I bring a CSR+ and an AB1600 to test it, and then the problems arised.

When the CSR+ is connected using the RJ14 cable (either having or not a miniplug connected to disable the slave cell), the flash goes off randomly. I discarded this is a radio interference issue as the LED in the CSR+ doesn´t turns red, and it also doesn´t seems to be RFI in the RJ14 cable, as the flash only fires when connected to the CSR+, so here's my first question: What could cause a random firing of the flash unit, when connected to a CSR+ with a RJ14 cable?

Then I connected a second AB1600 to a second CSR+, and the situation became stranger, as the model light in the first flash unit went to full power as soon as I powered the second CSR+ (this was still unpluged from the flash unit), then the first flash unit returned to it's original level when I powered the second flash unit, and finally, once I plugged the RJ14 cable into the second unit, both flashes begun to flash alternativaly. I turned off the second flash and the flashing stopped, so I turned off the first flash, connected the second one, and programmed the second CSR+ (open studio from memory, and refresh channel 2) to discard an issue there, but as soon as I turned on the first flash, the flashing begun again. So my second question is: What can cause an alternate continuous flashing of two flash units, each one connected to a CSR+?

After disconnecting one of the flash units to prevent further continuos alternate flashing, I continued to test the system with just one flash unit, but the I realized there are some additional things going on:
a) When I try to fire the CSR+ using the meter option in the CC, but sometimes the flash doesn't goes off, and the LED in the CSR+ doesn't turns red. As this is just a test, the transmitter and receiver are within 10 ft.
b) The dump LED in the flash units sometimes stay turned on, even when I connect the RJ14 cable after turning on the power in the flash unit.
c) Sometimes the red LED in the CSR+ lighted, but the flash didn't went off, and then I relized I could hear a click from the flash, but no light came from the unit. I tried with the test button and got the same. After disconnecting the RJ14 the flash unit behave as it should.
d) This is not an issue, but a question, am I supposed to always turn on the flash units before connecting the receivers? If this is the case, how other users do this with units mounted on boom poles? My idea of the CC is to avoid either bringing down the boom pole, or using a stair to reach the flash unit, but now it seems like I still need to do it, at least once at the beggining of the session.

Finally, I must admit I'm in an old building, so I may have some polarity and grounding issues (I will verify that ASAP), but the two flash units were connected to the same outlet, then the polarity of both units was the same one, and the ground tab was connected from one unit to the other, no matter the situation of the electrical installation.

Thanks in advance for your help!
Ruben

Wow! Your stuff is haunted.

From my experience, it typically takes a volt or two of "spiky" noise, the kind that electric motors or dying fluorescent lights make, on the power line to cause random firing problems.

I drove all my ghosts out of my flock of Ultra 600 and 1200 flashes and CSR+ and CSRB+ receivers by putting 1/4 inch clip on ferrite beads on the flash end of my power cords and looping the RJ11 cable through a 1/4 inch ferrite twice. From my experience, ferrite beads clean up so many weird White Lightning problems that I think Paul should stock them in the WL and AB stores. Radio Shack also carries the silly things.

That aside, did you hold down the test button for any length of time, longer than a second or so?

OK, trouble shooting tips...

• All receivers must be set to different channels. Receivers aren't just "receivers", they're really transceivers, and they send "OK, I got it" or "Houston, I have a problem" messages back to the Cyber Commander after you do something. If you've got two receivers on the same channel, they both respond after a command, and they jam each other.
• Did you try setting the CST, CSR+, and Cyber Commander to a different frequency? There's a lot of stuff in the 2.4GHz band. The reason we get to do control stuff on it is it's where microwave ovens operate, so it's too "jammed" for serious government or "paying customer" radio services, so the governments said "everyone can experiment on that band, it's a free-for-all". So, you get WiFi, Bluetooth, cordless phones, baby monitors, security cameras, car alarms, flash triggers, radio control toys, all using the same band.
• A CST with a low battery transmits random "fire" messages. I don't know about a Cyber Commander.
• Disable the feature that turns the modeling light off to tell you the flash is recycling. On the bees, that means the CYCLE button should be out. I don't know if that helps on Bees, but it's needed to make my Ultras happy.

OK, your particular questions:

a) Haven't a clue, unless something I already mentioned (frequency, channel, ferrite beads, CST battery) fixes it.

b) Yeah, the dump LED is a well known bug.

c) Could be many things, but my money is on a ground problem. Try moving the light and CSR+ to a different outlet.

d) I have my flashes switched on all the time, never disconnect or reconnect the RJ11 cables, and turn on 4 flashes at a time with outlet strips. Everything works fine. I have no idea why there's complicated sequences of turn on flash, connect cable, etc...



That's assuming that the outlets are reasonably free of oxides and the bridge bars from the upper to the lower are intact. And the grounds could well be connected together, but be floating, and your lines could be out of balance enough to have "neutral" several volts away from ground. I know at MPW, the grounds were floating far enough from ground that your own body capacitance was enough to give you a poke.

p.s. There's a new Cyber Commander?

Thanks for your insight Joseph, and yes, haunted is the word I was looking for (maybe the use of stairs instead of step ladder, among other mistakes, gave you a hint that I'm not an English speaker).

I'll visit the nearest Radio Shack in the morning to look for the ferrite beads.

I clicked the test button, but didn't hold it, is there a trick related to holding down the test button?

Yes, the CSR+ transceivers where on the same frequency, but on different channels. The first test was on frequency 1, which I succesfully used with the CST, and then moved all the way to frequency 5. I configured the first four channels in the CC, but only tested with two flashes and two CSR+.

I read about the low battery, but the CST is only two weeks old (maybe it stood longer in a shelf, but the LED is flashing only once everytime I push the test button, so I guess its battery is OK), and the CC came with a set of new batteries, so I would discard the battery issue there too.

Didn't know about the recycle button, I will try that too.

After writing my post I found the dump LED issue in the FAQs, sorry about reporting somehting already known (I was expecting a "RTFM" for this!).

Is nice to hear about having everything turned on and just turn on and off the switch in the power strip, that was my plan!

And, finally, yes, my Cyber Commander has an antenna just a little bit larger than the one in the CST. An update note in the package says: "The Cyber Commander design has been updated to include an antenna. This antenna provides a dramatically improved operating range with high signal integrity - a usable range now extending to 400 feet..." and after some additional text, it continues: "... version 32 firmware. This new firmware optimizes the hardware for the improved range."

So this seems like a plan to play with the new toys this Sunday!

I'm jealous... Two features that we asked for.

Holding the test button down for about 3 seconds puts a receiver (CSR, CSR+, CSRB, or CSRB+) into "repeater" mode. Do that to more than one receiver, and the system acts haunted.

There have been reports of CSTs having batteries low enough to cause HSS (haunted studio syndrome) right out of the box.

I wonder if Paul is going to have a "trade up" program to a commander with antenna? I wonder if mine is still in the return window?

Well, I drilled a lanyard hold through the center of the foot of my CC and forced a split ring through it. I probably would have cracked it open and put on an extended antenna (I did that with my old Radio Remote One), but I haven't had a need to do so with my CC.

If the CST battery was at fault, then the flashes would likely fire in unison (but not necessarily, I guess). Also, it would fire them with the standard sync cord as well as the RJ11 (individually or together), and the recieves would blink red idicating a recieved signal. I would be more likely to suspect a less than ideal grounding on the line, or trash/noise on the line. Anything with a ballast or motor on the circuit can cause this (flourescent lighting, refridgerator, occasionally a computer, etc).

Also try a different frequency. This is not typically a problem, but it is good to rule out anyway.

The red dump light indicates the flash is not getting a signal to go to a certain setting. This is not uncommon for initial setups. You will hear the "tickle flash" bing fired, and should see it if you are looking at the tube, but it is not very bright. After the Commander and recievers are set up properly, then hitting "refresh" should bring it up to operate normally. (be sure you have some blue in the vertical power bar for that channel).

Officially, yes, the flash needs to be on before the RJ11 is inserted. In practice, however, I have not had any issues arise from powering teh light up with the RJ11 already inserted, once everything was properly set up. You will likely get the red dump light when you power on the light, but REFRESH should get the flash to go to normal.

Be sure all sliders are to the left (full) and all model lamp buttons are pushed in. If there is no color in the vertical bar, go to SETUP>LIGHT SETTINGS>POWER select the appropriate channel and set to ON.

Hi again, and thanks to everyone who contributed an answer to this topic.

I'm back from a week of traveling, so it's photo time again, and this weekend is a studio lighting one to test the CC.

Getting the ferrite cores turned out to be a project itself: Radio Shack in Mexico no longer sells electronic components, just stuff like TVs, DVD players and cables for those devices, so had to visit a few electronic component stores in downtown to realize the ferrite cores aren't used as frequently as I remember from the old days, as they also didn't carry 'em, so had to request the ferrite cores from Radio Shack in the US (a good thing I'm 150ish miles away from Laredo, TX).

While I receive the filters, I begun testing the CSR+ again, and found some interesting results. I don't know if this is device related or configuration related, as I hadn't do an extensive setup testing yet, but:

a) I don't have major issues when using the CSR+ with the B800 units (could it be possible that the B1600 units generate such interference to trigger themself when a CSR+ is attached?)

b) The remote (RJ11) cord doesn't seem quite reliable to trigger the flash units, but it is controlling the flash levels properly (the flash unit only fires once every several times I click in the meter button of the CC, but the LED indicator turns red every single time, so it's a CSR+ to flash unit problem), so I connected both the remote and sync cables and I'm satisfied with the results (does someone knows if there is a known issue related to having both cables running from the CSR+ to the flash unit?).

c) My current setup has a B1600 as channel 1, a B800 as channel 2, and a B1600 as channel 3. I added one light at a time to test for interference. Everytime I power a CSR+ unit, the other flashes go off, so I made sure the CSR+ aren't in repeater mode. When I unplug the power line from the channel 2's CSR+, the channel 1's begin to flash as soon as it recycles, but the one in channel 3 remains stable. Yes Joseph, seems like my stuff remains haunted!

d) I still have to test in a real life scenario (meaning not from the back of the flashes), but is there some known issue regarding a major lightmeter inaccuracy in the CC? When I adjust the levels from the CC, the f/ numbers change acordingly, but a new meter reading probe them quite wrong (like a stop off). I don't know if calibrating the metering to the reading in my Sekonic L358 would help in this, as they begin with different readings (which could be normal), but can't imagine the power tracking to be fixed this way. Any suggestions (besides not using the CC power tracking capability)?

Thanks again for all your answers, and greetings to all of you celebrating Christmas today!