Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum

Potential Buyer of Alien Bee 800s

Tough Question: I have a Nikon D-80 and 4 SB-800 speedlights that work perfectly using the Nikon CLS system.

Now I want to add in a couple AB800's to the mix. Im guessing this is a lot like oil and water.

If I use my Nikon Creative Lighting System and its pre-flashes control my 3 speedlight intensities from the camera... that works just great! In order to add in the AB800's...what if I took a short PC cable and PC triggered a CST with it?? Then I would put a CSRB receiver on the Alien Bee 800's. Then, when I pressed the shutter, the CLS system would flash and do its job...and then...at the same time the PC connection would trigger the CST and the CSRB... and then My Alien Bees would also fire off too. YES? Big Question!! Will the timing be right where my speedlights go off...and my aliens also go off... at the same time?... full intensity? In the CLS system, it uses pre-flashes first... and then... the main flash goes off...will the CST be in time with the peak flash of the speedlights? They are both triggered by the shutter and the PC connection.

SO...is there any way...that I can use my existing speedlights with Nikons Creative Lighting System and the Alien Bees too? Yes..I could put my SB-800 speedlights in SU-4 Mode... and they would fire off as a non-controlled...manual flash...and I would have to walk over to every flash head and manually adjust them...and they would likely go off as manual strobes just fine. Would this work OK?? Having the Alien Bees Light Burst fire off my manual speedlights in SU-4 NON-CLS mode. Sounds like that would work...but... now Ive lost my ability to intensity control my 4 flashes from the camera head. Ive gone back to the 1990's where I have to visit each head individually and manually adjust it via menu settings... and then go back to the camera to test the new setting.

I also have a Sekonic 758 incident light meter...and its capable of triggering flashes with its built in PW transmitter (Yes I Know PW and CST is different incompatible frequencies). Here is the Second Big Question...Has anybody ever, put a PC "Y" connector on their cameras and had the PC contact closure fire off the CST transmitter...and then... synced the light meter too. I could make the light meter wait for the next burst possibly...but then I loose the ability to have the light meter pop the flashes from the models position. I suppose I could also put a CST on the light meter...and it pop off the Alien Bees? But not the Speedlights unfortunately.

Thanks for your help.

Will this setup work out somehow??? I like AlienBees...but there are 175,000 of us SB-800 users out there too. We would love to use your Studio Lights together with the ability to remotely control our speedlights.

The first question is what is triggering the SB800's? If it is the pop up flash, where will you connect a PC cord, as there is not one on the D80 and a hotshoe adapter will get in the way of the pop up. If using an SB800 as the trigger for the other three lights, you can connect to the PC terminal of the flash (this is Nikon only, any Canon users reading this cannot do it the same way). However, the CST battery must be of a sufficient charge, otherwise the low voltage of the battery will lock up the SB800 (this should not be a great big deal, just keep a new battery on hand). If using an SU800 or SB900 as the master, i would expect the same holds true. You would also need a reciever for each Bee in this case.

In this set up, everything will fire with proper timing. If you are manually, remotely, firing the SB's, you should be fine. If you are using TTL with the SB's, you will get an over exposure, as the speedlites will fire at an intensity to make a "good" exposure by them selves, not taking into consideration the additional light from the Bees.

The Bees would fire the SB's in SU4 mode fine, but with manual settings.

Sorry, I cannot speak of the light meter question. Otherwise, what you are doing has been done successfully many times.

TS,

I applaud you for being a factory guy who is willing to interact with the users. Nice Work you do!!!

I hear you...and I appreciate you pointing out that the Bees will not be taken into account in the CLS derived exposure...so they will add in un-calculated light and will then cause some kind of over exposure. Great Catch TS...that sounds logical.

I am using the SU-800 to remotely control and fire off all my SB-800 Speedlights in TTL mode for perfect exposures...and I also love the ability to control 3 banks of speedlights remotely from my camera position...and not having to manually walk around and physically adjust exposure/power settings. ( Sounds a lot like your great new Commander Controller...too bad I am so heavily invested in SB 800 and SB 900 speedlights...It will be nice for your users to do this too)

Thanks for confirming that the pre flashes will not upset the timing. So then, the main bang of the speedlights... and the CST / CSRB timing of the Bees will go off together...as long as i use the speedlights in fully manual SU-4 mode? Is that soundly confirmed?

Is there a way to have your new commander transmitter/receiver system remotely control the manual power settings on a Nikon SB-800/900 SpeedLight??

Thanks TS

Anything else I should know about bringing an Alien Bee Light into a CLS System...any gotchya's or tips/tricks?





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I appologize that I do not know the Nikon system intimately, however, I was under teh impression you can use the CLS in a manual capacity. That is, the output is adjusted manually from camera position, and the camera/master relays that info optically (which still requires some preflashing). This functionality may vary from camera to camera, or may be completely inaccurate, but you may want to look into it.

The CyberCommander cannot adjust non-Paul C. Buff flashes.

If you are using SU4 mode, you should not have preflashes. If you have preflashes from using CLS, the Bees will still trigger at the right time as long as the slave eye is locked out.

Looking at the manual, I do not see a PC terminal for the SU800, however, I would imagine connecting the CST to a remote SB800 would work to relay to the Bees, though I cannot confirm it. You could keep the Cyber Commander with you for Bee adjustment, and use the CLS for SB adjustment and SB triggering, and use the CST on a remote speedlite (probably) for Bee triggering.

TS was correct (as usual :-)

Nikon CLS does let you manually control the settings of remote SB800, etc. In fact, it is flexible enough to allow one complete group to be TTL, another group to be manual. All lights within a group will be the same, either TTL or manual, you cannot mix within a group.

For the purposes described here, I concur that you would want to use manual controls in general. It is conceivable that you would want to light a large set manually, and then use TTL near camera, but if you use TTL at all, the preflashes will trigger any lights on slave mode. You would have to ensure that all non CLS lights are on radio triggers.

I highly recommend this book for Nikon Speedlight & CLS users. It has not to my knowledge been updated for the new SB700, but it does cover the menus/settings for the SB600, SB800, and SB900 (which differ from type to type). The menu steps to get CLS going on an SB600 are different than an SB800, etc.

http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-Creative-Lighting-System-Flashes/dp/1933952415/

I have received the AB800 and the CST Transmitter and the CSRB+ receiver (+ model in case I want to upgrade to CC later).

I have purchased a hotshoe PC adapter from Pixel... so now I can use my Nikon SU-800 to remote control the intensities of my 3 SB-800's and SB900 speedlights...and then the PC output of the adapter goes to a CST transmitter to fire off my Speedotron Beauty Dish with an AB800 retrofitted to it using the CSRB+ receiver.

Its somewhat of a manual setup for now...but at least all the lights go off at the correct time and look nice together. I use my camera mounted Nikon Controller to adjust my speedlights and I manually control the Beauty Dish which is usually quite near the camera position while shooting clamshell beauty shots.

My Sekonic 758 has a 90 second mode where it will measure any flash within that time. So I just use my CST trigger to trip the BeautyDish and read that number...and then I can adjust my hair light and 2 side kickers and my backlight with the Nikon Controller.

After my budget has a time to settle down...the Buff Commander looks to be a superb device for the price...and it does so much for controlling the AB strobes. Ill keep you posted on my saga of trying to marry oil and water with the Nikon Creative Lighting Remote Control System and the Paul C. Buff Remote Commander. Too bad we couldnt integrate both systems...but im OK for now.

I used some metal work skills to mount a PCB Speed Ring onto the Speedotron 23 inch beauty dish...what gorgeous looking results im getting from the modifer and the AB800.

Cheers