Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum

Adding to my WL1600's that I've been using with white 36-40" shoot-through umbrellas for groups and portraits. They've done well for groups up to a dozen or so, but I'm curious about the raves I've been hearing about the PLMs (instead of the octoboxes I started looking for) and want to try them for an event next month that will include family groups. Are they just bigger umbrellas, or in some way superior?

Are you folks aware of any comparison photos of white bounce vs. white shoot-through vs. silver bounce setups? I read about increased specularity from sliver, but don't quite visualize it. Do metal buttons and jewelry reflect terribly? Not looking for shock imagery; just very clean detail and pleasant shadows. Thoughts on silver vs. white for formal groups and portraits?

Also on positioning with the directionality I read about with the PLMs. I now put an umbrella about chest level on either side of the camera with groups, pointed straight ahead to keep crossed shadows down. Is there a new strategy I need to use with the PLMs?

Thanks for the guidance!

And I'll offer a lesson in return. Shooting some student groups at the front of a church, I wanted to back up with a moderate focal length to flatten the group instead of moving in with a wide. I was shooting through umbrellas, but wound up with umbrella spill in the side of the frame because I was actually behind the unbrellas a bit. Don't let your desire to achieve one thing (flat perspective, in this case) cause trouble in a different area (correcting low contrast in post)! This is another reason I want to move from umbrellas to somethng with a rear spill guard.

When comparing a white shoot through umbrella to a white shoot through PLM, size is the main difference, as you cannot focus a diffused surface. However, a silver PLM vs. a Silver bounce umbrella are quite different in that the PLM will focus much tighter (13-25 degrees) than a standard umbrella. This allows for very large, very intense and specular light, while still maining control of where the light is going and maintaining soft shadows.

I doubt that the highlights coming off buttons and jewelry will be terribly different, however, you may very well see the difference in shiny fabrics, skin, and hair.

How valid is this plan..?

Two silver PLM 64's with diffusion panels for formal and casual family groups of standing & sitting adults up to 15 or so.

Doing more reading (remember when we had to send in a request for information by mail?), especially the Galbraith review, it looks like that combination should work well for a lot of things including that type group, while portable enough to set up in a not-too-big venue or my basement with an 8' ceiling. Lighting the football team with the three 64's was most impressive and should translate well into two 64's for a team of 30-40. The bonuses include the great portrait light with the panels removed, and the directional stuff I've never tried.

Thanks for your thoughts.

One more ponderance. I saw mention of the white 64 with spill block being used to uniformly light a largish dance/dining area. I usually point a reflector'd 1600 toward the ceiling now but would love better coverage if it isn't in the eyes of the guests. Do people usually point the white shoot-through straight up to get the spread, while not being too irritating? The ceiling bounce has the feature of being about as unobtrusive as flash can get. What's the rough trade-off equation?

Sounds like a very valid plan. You would treat them very similar to Octaboxes in that regard.

This is the first I have heard of this technique, though I would expect it to have the same results as a very very large Stoffen Omnibounce.

Thanks for all of your help. I ordered the silver 64's with panels this afternoon from Vicki. Who would want to order online when you can talk with Vicki and folks like her? If I had more money, I'd call back and order more just for the fun of the process.

Dang - Forgot to order spare shafts and cost myself some extra shipping. How often do you hear about shafts for the 64's bending or otherwise giving trouble?

rarely, if ever. You can call back and see if the order has shipped. You may be able to add to it if not.

ACPhoto:i hope u wouldnt mind i ask question here bout the same topic as yours instead of creating multiple threads.

i know silver surface bounce more light back compare to the white PLM ( with Black Outer Cover Fabric so it acts as white bounce)... if i were to set the camera setting to have the the right exposure on silver and on white(bounce) PLM, is there any major differences in the shadow? more contrast-y shadow?

*update: i think i gotten my answer from some old thread bout BD silver(w/wo sock) vs white