Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum :: View topic - Couple questions on complete Einstein + Vagabond Mini setup

My main question is: can I use the Pocket Wizard Multimax Transceivers with the Einstein E640 lights? If so, what type of cable do I need to connect the transceiver to the light?

Second question: are the Einstein E640 lights similar to the Quantum QFT-5DR lights?

Third question: are the Vagabond Mini lithium batteries similar to the Quantum Turbo 3 batteries?

Fourth question: can I attach the grid spots and speedrings to the Einstein lights?

However, I need to have the right equipment for school (ie: the equipment they recommend, or equivalent equipment) or I'll be in deep water!

I heard back from one of my instructors and they gave me the "okay" on purchasing the Einstein + VM setup, with the stipulation that I'll have to teach myself how to use the lights and figure out what accessories to get for them (speed rings, stands, clamps, etc). That's perfectly fine with me, since I plan to spend a month or two before school starts just learning my new equipment.

After some investigation/research, I think I have a better understanding on how this lighting system would work. Here's how I'm picturing my setup, please let me know if this is how it would actually operate:

1. Both Einstein E640's on light stands with reflectors (or soft boxes, etc).
2. One Vagabond Mini battery clamped onto each light pole, connecting via power cord to the Einsteins.
3. One PowerMC2 adapter plugged into each Einstein unit.

4. Canon 5D Mark II with a 580EX II flash plugged into the hot shoe.

5. One Pocket Wizard MultiMAX transceiver plugged into the 5D via cable (I'm assuming this goes into the cable release input on the camera?).

Then I would trigger the entire setup (2 Einstein's + 580EX II) by using the MultiMAX that is plugged into the camera, correct?
Would the transceiver trigger my camera, the 580EX II, and the Einsteins? Or would I trigger the camera, which would then trigger everything?

Author:	JustinPS [ Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:04 am ]
Post subject:	Couple questions on complete Einstein + Vagabond Mini setup
I am attending photography school in the fall and was told by several of the graduating students to take a look at the Paul C. Buff "Einstein" lights. The reason I'm going to school is because I have zero lighting knowledge, so I basically have no idea what I'm talking about. The school provides a list of equipment, and they have the following listed as required for the program: - 3x Pocket Wizard Multimax Transceivers - 2x Pocket Wizard cables (to connect to lights) - 1x Pocket Wizard CM-N3 Trigger Cable (for camera) - 2x Quantum QFT-5DR Flash Heads - 2x Quantum Turbo 3 Battery - 2x Quantum Battery clamp (I assume for keeping the battery on the light stand?) - 4x Grid spots (for lights) - 2x Photoflex Speedring (for lights) My main question is: can I use the Pocket Wizard Multimax Transceivers with the Einstein E640 lights? If so, what type of cable do I need to connect the transceiver to the light? Second question: are the Einstein E640 lights similar to the Quantum QFT-5DR lights? Third question: are the Vagabond Mini lithium batteries similar to the Quantum Turbo 3 batteries? Fourth question: can I attach the grid spots and speedrings to the Einstein lights? Sorry for the question dump, but enough people recommended these lights to me that I'd like to get a fairly complete setup from this company. However, I need to have the right equipment for school (ie: the equipment they recommend, or equivalent equipment) or I'll be in deep water! Thanks for any help you can provide, -Justin

Author:	Technical Support [ Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Couple questions on complete Einstein + Vagabond Mini setup
JustinPS wrote: My main question is: can I use the Pocket Wizard Multimax Transceivers with the Einstein E640 lights? If so, what type of cable do I need to connect the transceiver to the light? Yes, it can. We carry our CSSC cables on this page: http://www.alienbees.com/cords.html. Also, there is a drop in Pocket Wizard module for Einstein which requires no cords: http://www.paulcbuff.com/pcb2009/einstein.html JustinPS wrote: Second question: are the Einstein E640 lights similar to the Quantum QFT-5DR lights? In ways, yes. Particularly they are both flash units. Einstein is a dedicated studio flash, where as the Quantum is more of a speedlite on steroids. I am not qualified to compare to the Quantums as I am not intimately familiar with them. I do not, however, see any reason the Einsteins cannot be substituted, though that is up to your school. JustinPS wrote: Third question: are the Vagabond Mini lithium batteries similar to the Quantum Turbo 3 batteries? Only in that they are portable power. The Quantums are high voltage DC packs, designed to quickly charge speedlights. The Vagabond Mini Lithium is a 120VAC power supply, designed to charge studio lights outside the studio. The VML is capable of running a variety of AC flashes, but not all of them (they will charge all of ours), as well they can run other AC devices that are under 120W. JustinPS wrote: Fourth question: can I attach the grid spots and speedrings to the Einstein lights? Yes, we offer grids and most softbox manufacturers make speedrigns which are compatabile. JustinPS wrote: However, I need to have the right equipment for school (ie: the equipment they recommend, or equivalent equipment) or I'll be in deep water! This is the major factor. The school may have something specific in mind, so check with them to see if what you want to buy will meet the specific needs.

Author:	Joseph S. Wisniewski [ Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Couple questions on complete Einstein + Vagabond Mini setup
Yes, as Tech Support says, you can use a MultiMax setup with the Einsteins. They're just "triggers", all they do is fire the flash, so I'd suggest getting "control" system, too, something that can control the power of the lights. Personally, I'd go with a Cyber Commander and CSXCV modules for the Einsteins. But I really, really, really question the use of the MultiMax system, at all. It's a very specialized setup, with features for banking lights, sequencing them, alternating them, and fine tuning sync delays in thousandths of a second. I'm trying to picture a class in which I'd use those features, and I've taught product, macro, portrait, special effects, and high speed photography. Basically, you can spend 1/3 the price of the Multimax gear on Paul Buff gear and get a more versatile system. (really. MultiMax $295 x 3 = $885. Paul Buff Cyber Commander $180 + CSXCV $30 x 2 + CST $60 = $300). Talk to the professor. Unless there's some specific MultiMax things that he's going to be teaching, it's just not the right system. Even if there's a valid reason to stay with the Quantum gear (more on that in a second), there's a Quantum remote system that gives you power control of the T5D-R, as well as remote TTL automatic flash. There's also a Pocket Wizard system, TT5, that can both trigger and control power on an Einstein and (I believe) control power and do TTL auto on a T5D-R. Can I ask what school and what class? Personally, I think that list is just plain insane. If it's a list of what the school already has available in their studio for students to use, that's one thing. It's a moderately versatile setup that can do a big event job (a wedding or party), a location portrait job (in a corporate office or in someone's home), or a small studio job (formal portraits, model comp card, etc). But if it's what they recommend that you purchase, for your own use, and for this class, it's a waste of about $3,000. It's the ultimate in the "one-size-fits-all" approach to photography. It may "fit all", but it doesn't "fit well". The "Speedlights on steroids" description of the T5D-R heads is pretty much spot on. They're bigger, heavier versions of an on-camera "speedlight" flash like a Nikon SB-900 or Canon 580-II. The Quantum is 150 W-s, about 2-3x the energy of a speedlight, but only about 1/4 the energy of an Einstein. It's about the biggest thing you'd want to stick on your camera, or on a bracket that you'd hold in your hands. It's a great flash, if you plan on specializing in event photography. If I shot 50 weddings a year, I'd buy three of them. But not if I had to do a wide range of jobs. In the studio, the T5D-R is marginal, at best. It has no modeling light. A studio strobe has a light, between 100 and 300W, that shines on your subject and helps you aim and adjust your lights, see where the shadows are falling, adjust your barn doors and gobos to screen out undesirable shadows and reflections. The Quantum doesn't have that. And it has a very lightweight reflector attachment system. In order to put a decent sized soft box on it, you have to resort to complex brackets that hold both the flash and the soft box in proper relation to each other. Cumbersome, fragile, and hard to use. I own two entirely separate systems. I have my studio lights (A mix of Einsteins and 20 year old White Lightnings, controlled by a Cyber Commander) and my event lights (half a dozen Nikon SB-800 flashes). They each do their own thing, and do it well. No one-size-fits all. If it's kind of day when I need my charcoal gray suit and my favorite tie, I've got that, and if it's the kind for khakis, a tie-dye shirt, and my floppy bush hat with the kokopekli, I've got that, too. The studio lights have strong stand mounts, soft box mounts, and good 250W modeling lights, as well as a ton more power than the Quantum. (I have one studio flash, an X3200, with 10 times the power of the Quantum). The event lights are lighter (I'll take that over the extra power of the Quantum when I'm in the field).

Author:	JustinPS [ Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Couple questions on complete Einstein + Vagabond Mini setup
Wow, thank you both for the in-depth responses! @Technical Support: Thank you for the answers, I've inquired with my teachers as to whether or not I can use the Einsteins and VM's in place of their "required" equipment. I will still need to buy another multimax transceiver (to control the lights that the class' studio already has), but being able to buy the Einstein-specific ones would save me $100's! @Joesph: The class I'm taking is specifically for Commercial Photography; it is a 2-year program at Seattle Central Community College. I've spoken with several large photo studios in the Seattle area (Nordstrom being the largest, I spoke with the studio director there) and they all hire from this program. It's very highly regarded and the wait list is enormous for a CC program--nearly 200 people this year--because of the respect in the commercial photography community that this program has garnered. I only explain because I trust that the supply list the teachers are giving us is going to have useful equipment. The list is also semi-curated by the students, and they alter it each year to keep up with the latest technology (this year they require a Canon 5D Mk II or 7D for the camera body, for instance). They cater their lessons around the equipment list, so I am sure they will address various aspects of the Multimax system. As I mentioned above to the helpful tech support, I'll have to get another of the "standard" Multimax Transceivers in order to control the extensive lighting equipment in the schools' studios, but hopefully I will be able to use the Einstein-specific receivers for those lights (and save a couple hundred bucks). Another, related question: also on our supply list is the Canon 580EX II flash unit. I've read up on it and it seems to be capable of controlling the PocketWizard Multimax units that the school is asking for. However, is the 580EX II also capable of remotely firing and/or configuring the Einstein-specific PowerMC2 units? Thank you both for your time!

Author:	Luap [ Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Couple questions on complete Einstein + Vagabond Mini setup
Schools are notorious for using 10 year old equipment and teaching old technology and techniques. It's all about equipment budgets. The EX580EXII can be fired using Cyber Commander or CST but must be fitted with CSRB or CSRB+ receiver. The Power MC2 is only for use plugged into Einstein and serves no purpose with the 580EXII. When plugged into Einstein, it eliminates the need for a PW Transceiver for each Einstein. You have this backwards with "I've read up on it and it seems to be capable of controlling the PocketWizard Multimax units" The MultiMax can fire the EXII, not the other way around. Maybe I'm misreading the question. TS can better answer these questions than I can. If you want good follow up info, call in during business hours (1-800-443-5542) and ask for David (TS). He knows this stuff inside out.

Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum https://paulcbuff-techforum.com/

Couple questions on complete Einstein + Vagabond Mini setup https://paulcbuff-techforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1547	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Technical Support [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Couple questions on complete Einstein + Vagabond Mini setup
Any PW transmitter can trigger any PW reciever. So the Multimax can trigger the MC2. A PW can be connected to the 580EXII, and triggered in time with the other lights (but you will lose any TTL). There are TTL compatable PW's for your speedlites, which also add more features to the MC2/E640 mix, but not TTL. Like Paul said, feel free to give me a call and I can go over this with you in real time.

Author:	JustinPS [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Couple questions on complete Einstein + Vagabond Mini setup
Thanks again for the replies! @David: I will give you a call in the next few days once I (hopefully) hear back from my instructors on whether or not I can even use the system! @Paul: One of the biggest reasons I enrolled is because of their up-to-date lessons/instructions and equipment. Canon and Manfrotto also donate heavily to the program so they have most of Canon's entire lens lineup in their inventory, available for students to rent. It's a very nice program, I'm really looking forward to starting, but I'm a little lost when it comes to studio lighting equipment! I don't see any sort of "Commander" unit on my equipment list, but I don't know what 1/3 of these items are anyway so it might be hiding. I'll do a bit more research and ask my instructors.

Author:	Luap [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Couple questions on complete Einstein + Vagabond Mini setup
Again, schools tend to teach the oldest and most common methodology. I guess this is necessary because of budgets and the fact that teachers are usually retired photographers who teach what they know. Same thing happens in most sciences. If you really want to be cutting edge with your knowledge, self education is the only way I know how to get there. If you only practice what you learn in academics you'll end up an also-ran photographer. I learned all about vacuum tube electronics in the 1950's in the USMC and took only one academic semester following that. From there, self education and self employment. Sure couldn't survive building tube electronics now ;)

Author:	JustinPS [ Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Couple questions on complete Einstein + Vagabond Mini setup
I heard back from one of my instructors and they gave me the "okay" on purchasing the Einstein + VM setup, with the stipulation that I'll have to teach myself how to use the lights and figure out what accessories to get for them (speed rings, stands, clamps, etc). That's perfectly fine with me, since I plan to spend a month or two before school starts just learning my new equipment. After some investigation/research, I think I have a better understanding on how this lighting system would work. Here's how I'm picturing my setup, please let me know if this is how it would actually operate: 1. Both Einstein E640's on light stands with reflectors (or soft boxes, etc). 2. One Vagabond Mini battery clamped onto each light pole, connecting via power cord to the Einsteins. 3. One PowerMC2 adapter plugged into each Einstein unit. 4. Canon 5D Mark II with a 580EX II flash plugged into the hot shoe. 5. One Pocket Wizard MultiMAX transceiver plugged into the 5D via cable (I'm assuming this goes into the cable release input on the camera?). Then I would trigger the entire setup (2 Einstein's + 580EX II) by using the MultiMAX that is plugged into the camera, correct? Would the transceiver trigger my camera, the 580EX II, and the Einsteins? Or would I trigger the camera, which would then trigger everything? Once I get my student loan next week, I'll be giving David a call to go over everything and put in an order. Thank you very much for all the help! -Justin

Author:	Technical Support [ Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Couple questions on complete Einstein + Vagabond Mini setup
JustinPS wrote: I heard back from one of my instructors and they gave me the "okay" on purchasing the Einstein + VM setup, with the stipulation that I'll have to teach myself how to use the lights and figure out what accessories to get for them (speed rings, stands, clamps, etc). That's perfectly fine with me, since I plan to spend a month or two before school starts just learning my new equipment. After some investigation/research, I think I have a better understanding on how this lighting system would work. Here's how I'm picturing my setup, please let me know if this is how it would actually operate: 1. Both Einstein E640's on light stands with reflectors (or soft boxes, etc). 2. One Vagabond Mini battery clamped onto each light pole, connecting via power cord to the Einsteins. 3. One PowerMC2 adapter plugged into each Einstein unit. Yes. Though the Einsteins can be plugged in to AC mains. VML is not required unless reliable power is not available. JustinPS wrote: 4. Canon 5D Mark II with a 580EX II flash plugged into the hot shoe. Ye, with a caveat, described below. JustinPS wrote: 5. One Pocket Wizard MultiMAX transceiver plugged into the 5D via cable (I'm assuming this goes into the cable release input on the camera?). This will work, but not via the cable release (unless you are triggering the camera remotely with another PW). You would connect the PW via the PC terminal. Unless there is a specific reason to go with the MultiMax, I would go with a TT1 or TT5. These would sandwich between the camera and 580, reducing the cabling (PC cord is not required in this case). You can use any PW channel from the MultiMax or any other PW. Using these will also allow remote adjustment of the E640's JustinPS wrote: Then I would trigger the entire setup (2 Einstein's + 580EX II) by using the MultiMAX that is plugged into the camera, correct? Would the transceiver trigger my camera, the 580EX II, and the Einsteins? Or would I trigger the camera, which would then trigger everything? Unless you are doing remote triggering (above a basketball goal, for example), you would trigger the camera directly, which then triggers everything else.

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