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| With CST/CSRB Canon 550EX not in perfect synch https://paulcbuff-techforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3637 | Page 1 of 1 | 
| Author: | jedlovec [ Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:31 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | With CST/CSRB Canon 550EX not in perfect synch | 
| I am shooting hummingbirds. The Microflash Pro (MFP) does not synch exactly with my Canon flashes. I am using the cyber sync radio triggers (CST/CSRB) from Alien Bees. A group of Canon flashes will exactly synch, but not the group plus the MFP. This is not apparent at all times but usually in the point of flight where the birds wings are traveling the fastest. If I run my canon flashes at 1/128 energy (about twice as fast as the MFP) they still do not exactly sync, but it is a little better. I have tried all settings on the canon flashes in their manual mode to no avail. My CSRB connection to the canon flash is via the canon hotshoe miniphone jack available from FlashZebra. Anyway, I would appreciate it if anyone has advice or references. Thanks, Don Jedlovec | |
| Author: | Technical Support [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:29 am ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: With CST/CSRB Canon 550EX not in perfect synch | 
| do you keep the same recieves with the same flashes at all times, or do you connect them randomly (i.e. the first flash you pick up oges with the first reciever you pick up? Do you always use the group that does sync along with the group that does not, or do you sometimes use one group or the other only? What kind of results are you getting? Double images? Ghosting? Are any of your recievers in repeater mode? This is indicated by the green LED blinking three times rapidly every few seconds rather than once every few seconds. Are you using one reciever with each flash, or do you have a splitter so that multiple flashes share a reciever? Are all of the speedlites the same type, or are the ones that work well the same type, and the others are different, or they all different? Obviously, the MFP is different. | |
| Author: | jedlovec [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:24 am ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: With CST/CSRB Canon 550EX not in perfect synch | 
| Technical Support wrote: do you keep the same recieves with the same flashes at all times, or do you connect them randomly (i.e. the first flash you pick up oges with the first reciever you pick up?  Do you always use the group that does sync along with the group that does not, or do you sometimes use one group or the other only? What kind of results are you getting? Double images? Ghosting? Are any of your recievers in repeater mode? This is indicated by the green LED blinking three times rapidly every few seconds rather than once every few seconds. Are you using one reciever with each flash, or do you have a splitter so that multiple flashes share a reciever? One CSRB per flash. Are all of the speedlites the same type, or are the ones that work well the same type, and the others are different, or they all different? Obviously, the MFP is different. One CSRB per flash. I am not in repeater mode. Slight ghosting where the subject motion is fast. I have 4 flashes. 3 are 550ex, one is MFP. Either the 3 550EXs or the MFP give great, un-ghosted results when used separately. All on same frequency. I do not know what you mean by "pick up". | |
| Author: | PowerEngineer [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:52 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: With CST/CSRB Canon 550EX not in perfect synch | 
| By "pick up" TS is referring to the physical act of picking-up or grabbing a flash. TS is asking if you consistently pair the same receiver and flash together or are they randomly paired. If you have your receivers numbered/labeled then you might be consistently pairing a certain receiver with the MFP. | |
| Author: | jedlovec [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:20 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: With CST/CSRB Canon 550EX not in perfect synch | 
| PowerEngineer wrote: By "pick up" TS is referring to the physical act of picking-up or grabbing a flash. TS is asking if you consistently pair the same receiver and flash together or are they randomly paired. If you have your receivers numbered/labeled then you might be consistently pairing a certain receiver with the MFP. I wonder why it would make a difference what carb was connected to which flash. I have three 550exs and one KRP. They each have a csrb connected. I connectEd them this way once, encountered my problem, and I have not tofu a flash or a csrb since. I have ghosting, not double images, as if one type of flash is of much longer duration. Note that if I use only the three 550exs or only the KRP, there are no problems. All motion is stopped with a 30 microsecond flash I each and things look great. I must be doing something fundamentally wrong... Thanks for your review. | |
| Author: | Technical Support [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:47 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: With CST/CSRB Canon 550EX not in perfect synch | 
| jedlovec wrote:  I do not know what you mean by "pick up". By "the first reciever you pick up" I mean the reciever that is selected based on convenience rather than one selected by a methododical proceedure. An example of a methodical proceedure would be each light is numbered and each reciever is numbered, and the same reciever goes with the light each time, or each reciever is stored with a specific flash. An example of one picked randomly would be you have a bag of recievers, and whichever one is on top goes with the first flash you randomly decide to connect. From your description of the problem and considering the flash units involved, I would expect this to be an issue of the design differences between the two types of lights that introduce different latencies rather than a triggering method. The MFP is a light designed for a specific purpose (at least for a limited scope of purposes). The brief look I had at the website, it is marketed at stop action photography. This involves more than just flash duration, but also timing of the trigger signal. I would presume the faster the better, considering the triggering offered methods offered by the company. The Canons, on the other hand, are probably designed.....to meet a lower standard. I do not mean that in a bad way, rather that the increased standard would only drive up cost without an increase in performance (at least in the way they were expected to be used). Alternatively, they may be designed intentionally different for a specific reason as speedlites typically fill a different need. Ultimately, I think it is the difference in design which introduces different reaction speeds from trigger input to actual flash. If one flash catches a wing at one point, and the others catch the wing at a different point, then a blur or two distinct images can result (if two distinct images are very close, it could conciveably appear as a ghosting if there is not any significant seperation). If the problem is "slight" at the fastet part of a humming bird's wing beat, it does not take much in the way of tolerance/design differences for this to occur. If the problem was in the Canon flashes, it would appear even when only the Canons were used. If it were in the triggers, it would also likely appear when only the Canons were used (as long as the remotes were randomly assigned to the lights). | |
| Author: | Technical Support [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:53 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: With CST/CSRB Canon 550EX not in perfect synch | 
| PowerEngineer wrote: By "pick up" TS is referring to the physical act of picking-up or grabbing a flash. TS is asking if you consistently pair the same receiver and flash together or are they randomly paired. If you have your receivers numbered/labeled then you might be consistently pairing a certain receiver with the MFP.  Exactly. jedlovec wrote: I wonder why it would make a difference what carb was connected to which flash.  If there was a "defect" in a reciever that changed the triggering latency, it is possible the issue stems from that reciever (or possibly the reciever's location). Though I would still expect the issue to derive from the latency differences in the flash units. | |
| Author: | jedlovec [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:10 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: With CST/CSRB Canon 550EX not in perfect synch | 
| Technical Support wrote: jedlovec wrote:  I do not know what you mean by "pick up".By "the first reciever you pick up" I mean the reciever that is selected based on convenience rather than one selected by a methododical proceedure. An example of a methodical proceedure would be each light is numbered and each reciever is numbered, and the same reciever goes with the light each time, or each reciever is stored with a specific flash. An example of one picked randomly would be you have a bag of recievers, and whichever one is on top goes with the first flash you randomly decide to connect. From your description of the problem and considering the flash units involved, I would expect this to be an issue of the design differences between the two types of lights that introduce different latencies rather than a triggering method. The MFP is a light designed for a specific purpose (at least for a limited scope of purposes). The brief look I had at the website, it is marketed at stop action photography. This involves more than just flash duration, but also timing of the trigger signal. I would presume the faster the better, considering the triggering offered methods offered by the company. The Canons, on the other hand, are probably designed.....to meet a lower standard. I do not mean that in a bad way, rather that the increased standard would only drive up cost without an increase in performance (at least in the way they were expected to be used). Alternatively, they may be designed intentionally different for a specific reason as speedlites typically fill a different need. Ultimately, I think it is the difference in design which introduces different reaction speeds from trigger input to actual flash. If one flash catches a wing at one point, and the others catch the wing at a different point, then a blur or two distinct images can result (if two distinct images are very close, it could conciveably appear as a ghosting if there is not any significant seperation). If the problem is "slight" at the fastet part of a humming bird's wing beat, it does not take much in the way of tolerance/design differences for this to occur. If the problem was in the Canon flashes, it would appear even when only the Canons were used. If it were in the triggers, it would also likely appear when only the Canons were used (as long as the remotes were randomly assigned to the lights). OK, thank you. I will try to optically trigger the MFP with the output of the 550EXs, and then that's all I can think of. Thank you for your advice. | |
| Author: | Technical Support [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:11 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: With CST/CSRB Canon 550EX not in perfect synch | 
| I had that thought as well. However, it may work or it may not. Assuming it is the MFP that is firing faster (which I would expect), an optical trigger would trigger it later than the others, and whatever latency it has would come after (basically reversing which lights cause the problem). If this is the case, and if the problem still persists, then I would imagine it to be improved. If the MFP is actually the one firing later, then the problem would be exacerbated. Is there any timing adjustment available on the MFP? if so, you could retard the timing a tad to equalize the latency to that of the Canons, and continue to use the CyberSyncs as you are now. | |
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