Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum

I'm shooting cars in a large space, as well as outside, and could use some advice.

First indoors:

the building is approximately 100'x60'x15' with 20 cars, gas pumps etc..

Not sure what info you need to give good advice? I have a B400, B800 and B1600 w/11" long throw reflector, 8.5" reflectors, and 10x36", 24x36" softboxes. Shooting with 5dMk3 w/24-105, 70-200 and I'm usually shooting around f18-f29.

Shooting outside I have been using the B800 and B1600 with the 11 and 8.5" reflectors. Works well but the light can be a little harsh so I was thinking trying the PLM Umbrellas, I would like a more diffuse/softer light but don't know which ones to order and what sizes?

Thanks in advance on any suggestions.

Are you trying to light up all 20 cars at once? Or one car at a time? Do you want even light, or more dramatic light? (even light is not always better).

What are you shooting outside? Are the same things moved there, and if so, how many at once?

One person's list of needs will vary from the next person's, based on the vision of the final result. However, with a space that large will be hard to light evenly. This will be mostly due to the fall off from one end to the next, which will apply to any light with any modifier. Depending on what exactly you are trying to accomplish, this may be a time to consider compositing.

I need to light the space with the cars in it but not every car individually, this is for a shot of the garage not the cars. I shoot the cars individually. I prefer dramatic light, it usually results in a picture with more depth.

Each car is taken to a different location to be shot. I expose for the background and the fill with the lights often in backlit and lots of shadow situations. The key for me is not to use so much light that I lose the shadows and it starts to look unnatural. The B800 and B1600 w/11" long throw reflector, 8.5" reflectors works pretty well. They are generally about 20' away from the car with the power up quite a bit so it can look a little harsh or contrasty but at that distance its easier to hide the reflection in the car. I've tried using a softbox but I really had to turn up the light and move it closer, I'm hoping that an umbrella would be a good compromise.

I've never used umbrellas so I don't know the best to start with or if there's any other modifier I should be considering.

Large PLM's will give you somewhat softer lighting than reflectors (though not as much farther away than if they were closer in), but with more power than a softbox. Distance will allow more even coverage in the depth axis.

Also, shooting inside at those apertures, I assume you are using a tripod and dragging the shutter? If so, you can always pop the lights manually multiple times to add a cumulative amount of light from the flashes, while you are building up the ambient exposure.

So, to be clear, are you lighting the whole garage, which will only have one or two cars at a time? Or will you need to light the whole garage containing all the cars, but only need some of the cars lit? Or, are you only needing to light, say one portion of the garage, with however many cars, but you have the rest of the garage for light placement?

I shoot hand held and my shutter is usually between 80-200. When shooting a wide shot of the entire garage I will use a tripod and significant slower shutter.

The garage will be full of cars and there is a significant amount of ambient light from other spot lights etc., I'm not trying to fill the garage with light, I'm hoping I can add the three lights I have to highlight certain ares of the garage. When I shoot it with available light and a long exposure it looks flat and uninteresting. The light is too harsh when just using the reflectors, too many well defined shadows.

Which PLM's should I go with and what size, I can't afford to buy them all..?

Is there a rule of thumb on which size umbrella for which light? Should I mount an 86" on a B400 for example?

How does the light from the Extreme Silver compare to the light from a reflector?

How does the different diameter effect the light? Intensity, fall off, specular highlight etc..

Which mounting option would be best for outdoors? Can I purchase the Speed Ring option for indoor or calm conditions and then use it without the speed ring adapter like a normal umbrella outside? For some reason I find which adapter to get a bit confusing.

I also have to shoot quite a number of Gas Pumps, some are 8-10' tall. The pumps are only about 10" away from a white wall and are too heavy to move. They also have a lot of light on and inside them that need to appear in the picture.

So this is what I'm thinking:

To light the garage I would use all three lights, B1600 as a fill light with an 86" Soft Silver, the B800 as a key light with a 64" Extreme Silver, and the B400 as a back or rim light with a small reflector or snoot.

For the Gas Pumps I would use a dark backdrop, two lights for a more dramatic look, the B1600 as the fill with 86" Soft Silver and the B800 with the 64" Extreme w/front Diffusion.

For the cars, which parked right next to one another, I didn't see anything other than the part of the car I was photographing so I cranked up the power and shot with a fast shutter and as high an f-stop as I could so the background just dropped away. Worked great.

However the pumps have lights that I want to see so I won't be able to pump as much light on them and have to use a slower shutter and lower f-stop so the background won't drop away.

I hope this makes sense..

For your purposes, I would suggest an extreme silver or soft silver, to be discussed below.

No, the output is going to be within 1/10 at 14' for each change in size, so no more than a 2/10 change from 86 to 51 or vice versa.

This depends on the reflector. At the same distance, a larger modifier will give you softer shadows than a smaller one, so any of them will soften the shadows more. The extreme silver PLM will have a very sharp cutoff of light as it falls off on the periphery. Some reflectors will do this, while others feather gradually. Soft silver will feather gradually as well.

Again, output will not drastically change from size to size, when focused. The same fall off pattern will be shared among all sizes of a particular surface. The area of coverage will only change in proportion to the difference in size of the PLM (i.e. the 86" PLM is 29" larger than the 51" across the open face. this means the area of coverage will be 29" wider). The change of specular highlights will be dependent on the surface which is reflecting. The larger PLM's will have a larger specular on a flat surface, since they are larger. However, cars have few flat surfaces, so it will be impossible to quantify.

Really, either will work. If you get an extreme silver, it will focus more when using the speedring. I don't think one has a benefit over the other for the purposes of being outside. I will suggest you sandbag or otherwise secure the light when using outside.



Nothing about this sounds bad. You may want to consider diffusion fabrics for each PLM, just add to their versatility.

Thanks for the detailed reply, I should be placing another order this week.