Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum

Hi:

I have just acquired two Einsteins, with CC and CSXCVs and have set these up as under:

A. Canon 5D3 with a YN622 and a Satechi remote trigger (to take selfie's!)
B. Above YN 622 triggers a Canon 580 EX with a beauty dish which I use as a hair light
C. A PC cord from 5D3 triggers the first Einstein with a 51 in PLM which is the KEY light - slave light is turned off. This is CH2
D. The second Einstein with 64in PLM is the FILL light. The slave in on, so that this light can be triggered by C (KEY Einstein) This is CH1

With the Cyber Commander, taking a reading for the FILL light works fine (as long as the KEY light has slave light off). However, when I try to take a reading on the KEY light, the FILL light also pops (since the slave is on).

So what is the best practice for such a situation?

I am an amateur photographer and an electrical engineer by training. I just love the Einstein and CC technology!

Thank you.

Since you have the CSXCV's, why are you using the PC cord and the slave eye? I would turn the slave eye off, meter with the Cyber Commander, and put the Cyber Commander in the hotshoe of the transmitting YN622.


Better yet place a CST in the hotshoe, and keep the CC in hand.

Cortlander,

Welcome to the forum and to the wonderful power and capabilities of being an Einstein user. And please, take Technical Supports advice and take every advantage of having the Einstein/CSXCV/Cybercommander combination :-) I'm assuming you owned the YN622 prior to aquiring your PCB gear, and there is *nothing* wrong with that. Now that you have that wonderful PCB setup, though, build your lighting setups around your Einsteins and Cybercommander and add in your speedlight as opposed to setting up your speedlight and then adding in your PCB Buff gear.

You have gone so far in investing in your PCB system; may I suggest you spend just a little more and purchase a CSRB+ to trigger your Canon 580? Don't feel like you are committing adultery on your Yongnuo, and don't sell it :-) You will still have use for it in the future.

Your light kit is not too different than mine. I also have two Einsteins (controlled by CSXCV's), two Cybercommanders (one as a backup because remote control is THAT important to me), and three speedlights I often use for rim light, rear light, etc. When I do use speedlights in a setup, I fire them via CSRB+ triggers. I have had some shooters ask me why I even bother with triggers instead of just firing them via dumb slave. The reason is exactly what you are asking about here, and that is the ability to meter every single light in my setups separately with my Cybercommander.

Here is a family portrait I made (on location, BTW, powered by two Vagabond Mini Lithiums) using two Einsteins and one speedlight:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/92211832@N04/10875306865/

The speedlight was put on the floor behind the family for separation light on the wall, it was fired by a CSRB+, and metered with a Cybercommander.

Craíg

http://www.craigwasselphotoart.com

Hi Craig:

Thank you so much for the gracious message and taking the time to help me. Yes, I did own the YN622's before I thought of the Einsteins and building the setup around them certainly makes more sense as you advice.

So it seems that I do need to get CST. From your experience, CSRB+ would be a much more interesting option than the YN622. I could send the YNs back. (And no marriage -> no adultery :D )
I am not quite sure the CSRB+ workflow with the Canon 580 EX II. The Paul Buff site says:

"When using the Cyber Commander™, a CSR+ or CSRB+ can be used for triggering, metering and grouping. All Cyber Commander™ functions are retained except for power adjustment - that can only be accomplished on Paul C. Buff™ units."

How is metering done if there is no power adjustment? In your setup, are you able to set power on the flashlights in the same way as you set them on the Einsteins through the Cyber Commander buttons?

Thank you for sharing the pictures - they are beautiful.

You are very welcome, Cortlander. It's my pleasure

You would not be able to remotely control the power on your Canon 580.

The physical setup would be: You would have a sync cable connecting a CSRB+ to your speedlight.

The tech setup would be: You would configure your Cybercommander to fire that CSRB+/speedlight on its own channel but on the same frequency as your Einsteins.

Metering your speedlight: Once you have your speedlight configured for a channel on your CC, you would set your ISO and shutter speed in the "Flashmeter" menu on your CC. You would then return to your flash menu on your CC, change to the channel your speedlight is on, then take a meter reading. Here is a YouTube video of a guy doing a "selfie" and going through this whole process. It's not as hard or involved as it may sound once you do it a few times:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf2yajyDbmE

The only downside is you will have to manually adjust your power directly on your speedlight until you get the F/stop you want. It's just one light you would have to touch, though, since you can completely control your Einsteins via their CSXCV's and your Cybercommander. The only time it can be a bit of a hassle is if your speedlight is not easily in reach, like when up high or in a softbox.

You don't have to buy a CST unless you want to keep your CC in hand/pocket during sessions or/and you want a backup way to fire your lights. If you are doing paid work in front of clients, though, I would highly recommend having either a CST or a 2nd CC as a backup. If you go the "backup CC" route, though, note that you *can* meter and make adjustments with one CC in hand then fire your lights with another CC in your camera's hotshoe and your lights *will* fire, but I believe the settings on the hot-shoed CC will affect or over-ride setting from the CC in your hand. I've never tested, but I think I remember Tech Support talking about this.

Craíg

http://www.craigwasselphotoart.com

Thanks again, Craig. You have just been incredibly helpful.

So my choice is use CSRB+ to take a meter reading, but adjust the power on the flash manually. There is also the advantage of including the flash in the groupings etc just like the Einstein. With the YNs, I can power the flashes remotely, but cannot do any of the other stuff. It boils down to whether this is worth $90 plus shipping. Would have been a no brainer if this had been priced like the CXSCV :D .

The CST is an interesting option and since I do like fiddling with the light meter settings on the CC constantly. No, I have no pretensions on making any money with my photography - it is for now a fascinating hobby.

I enjoyed the video, especially on how he cupped his hand on the CC light sensor to cut off other lights and moving the lights to change power strength.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Fair enough.

One other thing you can do is to put CH1 in its own group and CH2 in its own group, and meter within the group functions (GRP8 and GRP7, for example). Even if the slave eye is active, the light will ignore the slave eye function if it is excluded from a group.

Pretty neat! Thank you so much!

Hello, Cortlander. Even though you do not make money from photography, I second (or third) the recommendation to pick up a CST, it makes the whole experience of using your lights so much more pleasant. If you feel guilty spending the money on it, ask for it as a birthday gift!