Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum :: View topic - Need help with my first purchase of Einstein's

Here are my questions:
1) Will shooting through 2 - White 64" PML with 2 Einstein's provide the best light coverage for shooting team pictures?

2) Would it be advantageous to add any of the following, White front diffusion fabric, Black front spill kill fabric or Black outer cover fabric?
Would the 180 degree coverage of the black spill kill fabric work for team photography?

3) Will my Giottos light stands handle this set up? Giottos spec’s:
Leg diameter - 28 cm
Sections: 4
Weight: 4 lbs
Maximun Load - 22 lbs
Footprint - 37” (measured extended leg to extended leg)

4) Is there anything else I should consider or need with the equipment listed above?

5) I understand that beauty dishes can be used outdoors for team pictures, but wondering if there is another alternative that will provide the lighting spread needed for team pictures.

6) Will I be able to connect the Westcott Apollo Orb to the umbrella mount on top of the Einstein?

7) For other modifiers that are not Paul C Buff products, what will I need to connect these modifiers to the Einstein?

8) Is there a bag that can hold 2 Einsteins and the 2 Vagabond mini?

If I understand correctly the Soft Silver PLM 64" will be good for both portrait lighting and team photography of about 18-20 players.
- From what I’ve read on the internet the Soft Silver PLM 64" sounds like it will be more versatile than the white.
- Due to my lack of knowledge, what is meant by the Soft Silver provides more directional lighting?
- Will this be a help to light the team pictures with 2 Einstein’s?
- Or does direction only come into play without the front white fabric?

With two Einstein’s, will I be able to light 3 rows of 6 players per row indoors using the Soft Silver PLM 64" and white front fabric and obtain an aperture of F8 - F11 or smaller? I realize there could be variables to this but I’m simply looking for an idea of what I can expect.

I considered buying one VLX but then I would need to run about 20’ - 25’ (maybe longer) power cord to attached the second Einstein. This could become problematic when on the ice with the younger hockey players. So to avoid that I thought it better to operate with two vagabond mini's. I would be interested in your thoughts on this as I do like the idea of one VLX.

You mentioned that two VLX's would be similar in price to the two mini’s. Is this over a 10 year period or am I missing something on the pricing?

One last question, should I be considering a 7” reflector? If yes, what are the main uses for this type of a reflector. Would this work for outdoor team pictures if unable to use PLM due to wind?

Author:	BKniner [ Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Need help with my first purchase of Einstein's
I could use some help and suggestions for my purchase of Paul C Buff equipment. I have been photographing hockey teams in indoor rinks with 2 Canon Speedlites 580ex shooting through a 2 - 45” white umbrellas. The number of players consist of 3 rows of 6 players per row. I have the umbrellas at each end of the group pointed inwards, height approx. 10 feet and approx. 20 feet out from first row pointing down at a 45 degree angle. I am getting even exposure, but would like to have more light with less fall off. I will also be doing portraits with this system. I am planning to order the following equipment: 2 - Einstein E640 Studio Flash Unit 2 - Einstein Single Light Carrying Bag 2 - Vagabond Mini Lithium 120VAC 2 - Vagabond Mini Battery Pack 2 - Vagabond Mini Bag 2 - White 64” PML 2 - White front diffusion fabric 2 - Black front spill kill fabric 2 - Black outer cover fabric 2 - Pocket Wizard Power MC2 (going this direct so I can use my PW Flex TT5 & Speedlites to create 3 or 4 light systems.) I currently have the following equipment: 1 - Pocket Wizard mini TT1 2 - Pocket Wizard Flex TT5 1 - Sekonic L478DR light meter 2 - Giottos 10.5” LC325 light stands Here are my questions: 1) Will shooting through 2 - White 64" PML with 2 Einstein's provide the best light coverage for shooting team pictures? 2) Would it be advantageous to add any of the following, White front diffusion fabric, Black front spill kill fabric or Black outer cover fabric? Would the 180 degree coverage of the black spill kill fabric work for team photography? 3) Will my Giottos light stands handle this set up? Giottos spec’s: Leg diameter - 28 cm Sections: 4 Weight: 4 lbs Maximun Load - 22 lbs Footprint - 37” (measured extended leg to extended leg) 4) Is there anything else I should consider or need with the equipment listed above? 5) I understand that beauty dishes can be used outdoors for team pictures, but wondering if there is another alternative that will provide the lighting spread needed for team pictures. 6) Will I be able to connect the Westcott Apollo Orb to the umbrella mount on top of the Einstein? 7) For other modifiers that are not Paul C Buff products, what will I need to connect these modifiers to the Einstein? 8) Is there a bag that can hold 2 Einsteins and the 2 Vagabond mini? Thanks for your help with my questions

Author:	Technical Support [ Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with my first purchase of Einstein's
BKniner wrote: Here are my questions: 1) Will shooting through 2 - White 64" PML with 2 Einstein's provide the best light coverage for shooting team pictures? My preference would be Soft Silver vs. the White. You will get pretty wide coverage if you add the white diffuser, or you can go more specular and higher output without. BKniner wrote: 2) Would it be advantageous to add any of the following, White front diffusion fabric, Black front spill kill fabric or Black outer cover fabric? Would the 180 degree coverage of the black spill kill fabric work for team photography? If you go with the white, then at least one fabric will be advantageous. If you plan to shoot through like you do now, then the black spill kill fabric will direct more light forward. If you plan on bouncing, then the black outer cover will do the same. The white diffuser can also be added so soften this even more. If you go soft silver, then I strongly suggest the white so you can have it on hand. BKniner wrote: 3) Will my Giottos light stands handle this set up? Giottos spec’s: Leg diameter - 28 cm Sections: 4 Weight: 4 lbs Maximun Load - 22 lbs Footprint - 37” (measured extended leg to extended leg) These look like they would do fine for a light and a 64" PLM. Larger softboxes, maybe. maybe not. BKniner wrote: 4) Is there anything else I should consider or need with the equipment listed above? You list to VML's and an extra battery for each. You will probably find the extra batteries unnecessary, and ultimately, they will become exhausted within 2-3 years without fulfilling their maximum potential. For similar pricing, I would suggest either two VLX's or one VLX and an extra battery. The VLX will recycle the two lights as fast as one light on each VML. The VLX batteries will last upwards of 10 years. BKniner wrote: 5) I understand that beauty dishes can be used outdoors for team pictures, but wondering if there is another alternative that will provide the lighting spread needed for team pictures. We have the White beauty dish and the silver. Each comes with a sock to widen the beam spread. Also, Our 18" Omni reflector comes with a sock for the same reason. Remember, the wider the spread, the less intense the light is at any given area. BKniner wrote: 6) Will I be able to connect the Westcott Apollo Orb to the umbrella mount on top of the Einstein? We have not tested it, but it should fit fine. I don't see any reason why you cannot, however, there always lies the possibility of some fluke clearance issue (highly doubtful). BKniner wrote: 7) For other modifiers that are not Paul C Buff products, what will I need to connect these modifiers to the Einstein? If it is a speedring based item (like a softbox), then a speedring that is designed to fit Balcar/Paul C. Buff lights (the description may use AlienBees or WhiteLighting or any of our brands). If it has a fixed mount, like a Bowens mount, then you cannot adapt a mount to the Balcar mount (to my knowledge). BKniner wrote: 8) Is there a bag that can hold 2 Einsteins and the 2 Vagabond mini? We do not carry multiple product carry bags. There are some on the market, but I do not have any specific suggestions.

Author:	Luap [ Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with my first purchase of Einstein's
I am currently doing a VLX™ video, using a single 86" Soft Silver PLM™ (8mm shaft version) and the Einstein™ model light only, at full, about 12' from the set. Getting really nice, even, bright coverage over about a 10' circle without the diffuser. Getting f8 at ISO1600 on Nikon D7000. I stand in front of the PLM, so it covers the subject area from all angles with no harsh shadows or eye socket/chin/dark side darkness. The bare PLM™ soft silver without diffuser is my go-to light for most studio shooting. True, the added diffuser makes it "softer", but it's very soft with nice shadow wrapping without the diffuser - and much higher output and better spill control.

Author:	BKniner [ Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with my first purchase of Einstein's
Hello and thanks for your replies. Being new to strobes I greatly appreciate your help. If I understand correctly the Soft Silver PLM 64" will be good for both portrait lighting and team photography of about 18-20 players. - From what I’ve read on the internet the Soft Silver PLM 64" sounds like it will be more versatile than the white. - Due to my lack of knowledge, what is meant by the Soft Silver provides more directional lighting? - Will this be a help to light the team pictures with 2 Einstein’s? - Or does direction only come into play without the front white fabric? Since I already have 2-45" white umbrella's adding the soft silver would give me another type of lighting and I like that. With two Einstein’s, will I be able to light 3 rows of 6 players per row indoors using the Soft Silver PLM 64" and white front fabric and obtain an aperture of F8 - F11 or smaller? I realize there could be variables to this but I’m simply looking for an idea of what I can expect. A good example of what I am hoping to achieve can been seen in a Rob Galbraith article at the bottom of his page of a indoor Dino’s team picture of a basketball team. http://www.robgalbraith.com/multi_pageb ... 0046-10396 I considered buying one VLX but then I would need to run about 20’ - 25’ (maybe longer) power cord to attached the second Einstein. This could become problematic when on the ice with the younger hockey players. So to avoid that I thought it better to operate with two vagabond mini's. I would be interested in your thoughts on this as I do like the idea of one VLX. You mentioned that two VLX's would be similar in price to the two mini’s. Is this over a 10 year period or am I missing something on the pricing? One last question, should I be considering a 7” reflector? If yes, what are the main uses for this type of a reflector. Would this work for outdoor team pictures if unable to use PLM due to wind? Looking forward to seeing Paul’s video on the VLX, 86” Soft Silver PLM using the modelling light at full on the Einstein to achieve f8 at 1600 iso. Thanks again for you help.

Author:	Technical Support [ Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with my first purchase of Einstein's
BKniner wrote: If I understand correctly the Soft Silver PLM 64" will be good for both portrait lighting and team photography of about 18-20 players. - From what I’ve read on the internet the Soft Silver PLM 64" sounds like it will be more versatile than the white. - Due to my lack of knowledge, what is meant by the Soft Silver provides more directional lighting? - Will this be a help to light the team pictures with 2 Einstein’s? - Or does direction only come into play without the front white fabric? Yes, the soft silver is very versatile. It is more directional (narrower beam spread) when not using the diffuser. When using the diffuser, the spread is about 130 degrees. BKniner wrote: With two Einstein’s, will I be able to light 3 rows of 6 players per row indoors using the Soft Silver PLM 64" and white front fabric and obtain an aperture of F8 - F11 or smaller? I realize there could be variables to this but I’m simply looking for an idea of what I can expect. At ISO100, you should be able to do this, depending on how far back your lights are. Modern cameras are very good at 400 and 800 ISO, so if you are willing to go that high, you should have absolutely no problem. BKniner wrote: I considered buying one VLX but then I would need to run about 20’ - 25’ (maybe longer) power cord to attached the second Einstein. This could become problematic when on the ice with the younger hockey players. So to avoid that I thought it better to operate with two vagabond mini's. I would be interested in your thoughts on this as I do like the idea of one VLX. I would put the VLX on one light stand, and run the cord from the second light all the way to the first, rather than both cords meeting in the middle. I would direct the skaters to come from the sides of the set, rather than between the lights. BKniner wrote: You mentioned that two VLX's would be similar in price to the two mini’s. Is this over a 10 year period or am I missing something on the pricing? What I was saying was for a similar price of two VML's and two spare batteries, you can get one VLX and a spare battery (20% less than the VML option) or two VLX's (20% more than the VML option). I guess "similar" can be subjective. Also, the price difference will diminish over time with the difference in life span of the batteries. BKniner wrote: One last question, should I be considering a 7” reflector? If yes, what are the main uses for this type of a reflector. Would this work for outdoor team pictures if unable to use PLM due to wind? Generally, these are not generally used on the main or fill lights. They tend to be more used for hair lights (with grids), background lights, kickers, etc. I would not consider them for the described application, personally.

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Author:	BKniner [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with my first purchase of Einstein's
Could you explain the advantages/ disadvantages of the two available mounts: 64" Soft Silver PLM™ with On-Axis Speedring Mount (Convertible to 7mm Umbrella Mount) 64" Soft Silver PLM™ with 8mm Umbrella Style Mount I realize choosing between the two mounts may be a personal choice, but not being able to see them or even try them out makes its difficult to make a selection. So if you could recommend one I would appreciate it. Thanks

Author:	Technical Support [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with my first purchase of Einstein's
The speedring mount sets the PLM on axis to the flash tube. This allows for better focusing on the silver PLM's, in particular, the Extreme Silver. The Soft Silver may have a marginal benefit, but the focus is not as critical. The speedring versions are a little more involved in set up where the 8mm is operated like a conventional umbrella. If you are using the Soft Silver, I would probably go with the 8mm.

Author:	Luap [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with my first purchase of Einstein's
I always use the 8mm straight shaft, even with Extreme Silver. Easier and faster to set up and the slight off axis is easy to compensate for by tilting the light/PML slightly. Doesn't really affect the pattern integrity. But the Soft Silver without diffuser is my choice for most uses.

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